I bought about this KW/KS about 10 years ago, and can't find any info about it. It came in a presentation box from "LARMOUR & Co, 195 Balto. St., Baltimore, MD". I suspect its movement is Swiss, and was produced as a sort of private label for jewelry stores (but that's just my guess).

The case appears to be gold ("W.P. & Co.", with a lion hallmark). It is about 1.75 in (44mm) in diameter (exc stem and bow).

Your thoughts, please... Who made the movement? Who is the case-maker? Approx. age? Meaning of the hallmark? Can I get the case assayed without significant harm to it?

Photos following...

-Damien

#1 Case Front

#2 Case Back

#3 Cuvette

#4 Dial

#5 HC opens w/ offset hinges

#6 Movement [last pic]

is the case 14k? James Russell was a swiss watch maker, guessing 1870-90, the case is amazing. It is a nice watch.

Andy --
Thanks, I think the case is a beauty. I don't know its caratage, but I'm hoping the lion hallmark might be interpretable by someone.

- Damien

Could you post a photo of the hallmark & makers mark on the case.

Damien,

Beautiful case!

From the look of the outer rim to the flatness of the lids, the case has the appearance of a solid gold case. Almost like a 90 degree angle...

When the lids are closed and you gently push in on lids with thumb and index finger do they flex? Some folks swear by the flex test.

Tom - you are spot on... Would like to see a picture of the hallmarks as well

Russell did make many watches in gold cases. Just think of the value if it is gold now compared to 10 years ago, nice investment.

W.P. & Co. is Wheeler Parson, a fine U.S. case maker.

Tom --
OK, here's a pic of the marking inside the case (it's the same on the front and back lids). Not shown is the additional serial(?) :"3069"

Jon --
I don't feel any flex on the HC cover lids, but definitely on the cuvette.

- Damien

Do you see any very small letters stamped along the edge of underside of the cuvette?

based on the color and age and maker, I have to believe this is gold.

Jon --
I just re-read then re-tried your "flex test" on the outer lids... the first time I was squeezing across the diameter of the lid without feeling any give. Now I think you meant to place thumb and forefinger in the centers of the front and back lids, and applying 'sandwich' pressure. Doing so yields a small flexing.

Ethan --
Armed with your cue about "Wheeler Parsons", off I went aGoogling... The company specialized in fine silverware and gold watch cases, watch chains, and other items (cuff links, tie bars, etc.) in service to the retail jewelry trade. It seems they did their own manufacturing in/around New York (Brooklyn, Newark NJ), with a primary company-wide showroom in the watch center area of Maiden Lane lower Manhattan. The company was an agent for Howard movements, and also imported Swiss movements for mating with their own cases. It looks like Messrs. Wheeler and Parsons were in business from about 1870 to 1888; later there was also some connection to Fahys case company (I didn't ferret out the details).

Tom --
My eyes aren't entirely reliable, even with a loupe, but I don't see any other letters or marks (except for the numbers 8069 stamped near the lower edges of the front and back lids. I found a ***** thread describing the same "W.P. & Co" and "lion" casing on a Swiss movement -- eliciting another member's comment that American casemakers after the Civil War often imitated the English hallmark idea.

Andy --
I'm no expert, but the color of the case parts looks more 'gold' than I'm used to seeing on my later GF cases -- and there is absolutely no sign of patina/darkening after 10 years in the safe (which I find common on my GF cases) -- and the entire watch weighs more in the hand than I expect for its size. That (with the lion hallmark) is what led me to believe it's a gold case.

- Damien

the stem blew me away, in the pictures it is flawless, hard for gold filled to stay like that. Besides every test I tell gold by sound, color and feel. This one looks gold to me, and I wish it was mine!!

Debbie --

Thanks for that link back to Lin's comments on the topic. It not only confirms the "flex test" method, but the thread in general is a close parallel to ours here.

Andy --
I guess I stumbled on to this truffle while rooting around for acorns...

Thanks to all you folks for your comments and suggestions. Only one of my original comments remains: is there a way to reliably assay the gold content without diminishing the beauty of a case like this one?

-Damien

a simple acid stone test, that will not hurt it at all.

William B. Larmour, Watchmaker & Jeweler, was born circa 1830 in Ireland, and conducted a retail jewelry business (Larmour & Co.) at the 195 W. Baltimore St. address in Baltimore, MD, c. 1870 -- 1874. the business continued under that name for a year or two after Wm. Larmour died c. 1874.

Looks like you've got a winner there, bro.

Damien,

I can't quite tell from your photo -- Is the word engraved directly under "James Russell" on the dust cover "LOCLE"?

If so, that would apparently be a reference to Locle, Switzerland, where several prominent watchmakers were located 1860s-70s.

Google brings up references to other antique pocket watches in the U.S. marked "James Russell" but I've found no clear explanation of their provenance. The Wheeler & Parsons case company was located in Brooklyn, NY. I found a thread from anothe horological website where a collector was asking about a watch whose written description sounded very similar to yours-- i.e, "James Russell" and "15 J" markings on the dust cover, W.P & co hallmark on the gold case, swiss movement. there must have been a watchmaker somewhere on the east coast putting that combination together.


I suppose there is no way to know for sure whether your watch was actually retailed by Larmour & Co; it might have been matched up with the presentation box some time later.

Good luck solving the mystery!
Dennis

Dennis --
Yes, the word under "JAMES RUSSELL" is "LOCLE". I also Googled up several comments referencing the Swiss origin of movements so marked, including another IHC185 thread (from Oct 2010) in which our Life Member Bruce Stewart was similarly inquiring about a hard-to-identify watch that pictured a structurally identical movement-- and on that 2010 thread, Lindell commented that he was certain the movement was a Swiss ebauche.
[As an aside, I wound and set my JAMES RUSSELL last night;now almost 15 hours later it is running about 5 seconds fast, compared to my computer clock]

I found another reference elsewhere that WHEELER PARSONS (the "W.P. & Co." casemaker from Brooklyn)imported Swiss movements and mated them to their own cases in supply to retail jewelry stores in the 1870-90 period. The name "JAMES RUSSELL" does not appear on my movement, but on the case cuvette -- suggesting that WHEELER PARSONS made up the name to sound English (i.e., purportedly high class)to American buyers of means.

Although there is no definitive proof that my watch was sold by LARMOUR in Baltimore, the issue is supported by the fact that the presentation box (leather covered, satin lined)is fitted with a holding cup that exactly fits the 10size watch, and is in similarly fine condition. Your discovery that LARMOUR was in business in the same period as WHEELER PARSONS seems to support the matchup as well.

Thanks for the backgrounding, little brother!

- Damien

If you are confident about the presentation box, it gives you great evidence for dating your watch. Baltimore city directories indicate Larmour & Co. moved to that street address (195 w Baltimore St.) in 1870 and disappeared from that address after 1876.