I have a Philadelphia 18s watch case when the rear cover is screwed on the train is upside down. I have tried the rear cover on about 8 or 10 Philadelphia frames and it is upside down on all of them. ???

Is this normal? Or do I need to try the rear cover on every Philadelphia frame I buy.

Harry

Could be made that way.

Sounds like a train wreck to me

I suspect when one checks the seperate numbers on the front bezel, mid section, and back cover, they would find that the case numbers don't match which means the choo-choo will have crashed

Each of the three components is meant to work on that particular case, together, but won't line up if interchanged

regards,
bb

Thank you Dave and Buster,

I new there was a number on the rear case but I did not know the front cover or bezel and frame had a number I will look and let you know.

Harry

Here is what I found out. I could not find a number on the front cover but that is not an issue anyway. The front of the frame has 7464 stamped into it and the rear cover has 467530 stamped into it. So at the least it looks like the rear cover has been replaced.

So if each case is mated at the factory does that mean that this back will not it other Philadelphia cases with the same thread pattern?

Thanks for your help.
Harry

The numbers on the frame are usually stamped on the back side rim face, and the crystal bezel often has a few last series digits in Roman numerals hand scratched into the inside perimeter.

Case making involves forming, serial numbering, and threading on each case assembled. Once assembled at the factory, if back cover engraving is to be done, the engraver screws the lid down firmly, marks the case back, and applies the case back design so that it will be a few degrees to the left of dead center. That was done to allow the design to "wear" into a "straight up/down" picture perfect alignment for the expected life of the case.

Most front bezels are marked on the inner-side close to the threads in hand scrawled Roman Numerals, while the mid section will be stamped like the back cover with Arabic Numerals. The front bezels and mid sections are usually only given the last 4-6 numbers of the case backs "full" serial number.

While "like/same" cases generally will be able to interchange these 3 components, do not expect them to "line-up" correctly. Collectors will not appreciate mixed component case parts either

regards,
bb

Thank you Dave and Buster again,

I see the hand scribed Roman Numerals on the inside lip of the front cover. I thought they were just scratched up. A couple of them seem to have the same marks repeated 3 times on the front cover or I'm interpreting them wrong. two of the seem to have "V III I I" which I don't know if that is 5311 or 811 or 532 or 82? Since the marks are getting worn off I it is hard to see. I will take a photo and if either of you don't mind you can give me your opinion of how to read it.
Harry

Here are the photos of the case. I am positive the back has been changed but the front cover is my concern now. Not whether or not it is correct because that does not matter since the back is not correct but how to read the scribed roman numerals. I have turned this post into a learning tool since Dave and Buster educated me that all three parts to a case are marked.
Thanks,
Harry

Rear cover number

Frame number

Front cover scribed numbers

My guess is the Body and front bezel are correct with the Bezel having 753* as V11 11=space V1 11=space III, the back cover is from another case.

* Roman numerals were developed when man had not yet applied mathematically or philosophically the concept of "Zero", Nothing, or the number "0", so the 753 has to suffice.

Since your case is silverode, you could take the back and sand down the thread side on a surface plate or a sheet of plate glass until you have the proper orientation. You would just have to take it slowly and keep checking your orientation until you were happy with it and then chamfer the edge of the back so it wasn't razor sharp.

Not that it matters a great deal, but I would say the rear cover and bezel of this one is from the same case and this case frame is from another case....since the bezel is 753 and the cover is 467530....

That is a good suggestion made by Bill also....

Regards,

Jerry

Well...........

As you can see from where the rotation of the case back lines up with the mismatched center section,

One would have to take the case back "down" [lower] by 180 degrees of rotation......

That's near to an impossible rotation of degrees and angle as it will ALSO lower the clearance of the case back to where it could very well come into contact with the movement and the case screws which would be disastrous

I don't believe one could take a case back down by 180 degrees of rotation to start with as you might run out of threads cut into the two pieces. Now if it were only say 90 degrees or less, off center line of rotation, it may be feasible as to a cosmetic fix. You could end up with a ruined case entirely by attempting to lower a case back by 180 degrees of rotation, if it were possible

I've been in this for a while and I have only been successful in taking a case back down by 100 degrees of rotation, one time. I believe that's pushing the limit of abilities and factory case back tolerable clearances.

regards,
bb

I believe you all make very good points. I will think on this one awhile. I need to look at the rear plate. 180 degrees is a lot to sand off. I may try to see if I have just a plain frame and see if I can get it to line up closer and if I can then sand down the back.

Thanks for the explanation about the roman numeral and why there were no zero.

Harry

One thing that I've noticed, an awful lot of those "late model' railroad cases in RGP and base metal,have striped and other pattern backs that don't anywhere near line up.I've seen these with matching numbers, and still are way off."seconds" maybe?

I have one that I purchased and when it arrived it was upside down. I unscrewed it and screwed it back on and it was upside down again. I tried one more time with the same results.

I contacted the gentleman who sold it to me because in his photo it was right side up. I accused him of lining it up to take the photo and then not mentioning it in his description.

Well before he could reply I took the back off and tried it on some other case frames I had (before I new cases where marked) and after now finding a match I put it back on the original frame and it lined up perfectly.

So before he replied I emailed him back eating crow. It wasn't to bad. He was very understanding.


I have tried that with this case many times and every time it lines up upside down. If I could get it closer I would try sanding it a little to see if I could get it closer.

With a single lead thread, which I ASSUME is what our cases have, it is always going to start at the same place and end up at the same place. Other backs may have the engraving at a different orientation that may be closer to the original. By sanding the back surface down you are essentially changing that orientation, possibly enabling you to get closer to the desired result.

Thank you Bill. I have not decided to try that yet because as Buster pointed out 180 degrees is an awful lot to make up.

Yes ,Buster has a good point about the clearance, which I had not considered. That's the great thing about these forums, many different view points and experiences!