I have a Type 3b and am wondering how to find out if it is an early 3b. Does anyone have serial numbers for the 3b's?
Thanks!
Just Joined.

Jeff, welcome to IHC185. How about the serial number of your watch to help us find what you want.

Some 21 Jewel 16s Bunn Specials classified as "Type III" were produced in the s/n range of 4,804,001-5,255,000 (1926-1930) taking them into the early Hamilton ownership days.

Hey Thanks Dave!
It was an honor to get your response. Do you know when the "B" version of the Type III started.. what serial number? My serial number is 5305834.

Dave,
I failed to mention mine is the 23 Jewel 60 hour Type IIIb.
Here is what I found on another post by Lindell:

He says there are only around 11,000 of the type 3, of which the B are only about 2,000. This is what I am wondering... What serial numbers were used on those 2,000? Here is his post:

"...we could surmise of the 11,000 or so Type III in 23-Jewel there may have been some 9,000 of the A variant and about 2,000 of the B variant."

This is a "IHC coined phrase" used to denote the difference in the two variants.

The "Illinois Watch Co." marked versions are called Type I
II A.

The "Illinois Watch" marked versions are called Type III B

They were the later made ones with the "Co." dropped because beginning in 1928 Illinois became the Illinois Watch Division of the Hamilton Watch Company and by the mid 1930s all production was centralized at Hamilton in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

regards,
bb

Would you say that mine is rather rare?
Only 2000 of the 11,000 Type III 23j 60 hour Bunn Specials were made without the "Co.". Also, mine is in the original 173 Bunn Special Case, AND has the Montgomery dial marked Illinois Bunn Special 23 jewel 60 hour on the dial. I wish I could find out what the serial numbers of the type made without the "Co" on the movement. I just would like to find out if it was of the earliest of this Type IIIb, as named by IHC. Thanks Dave and Buster for helping me. I'm in Raleigh NC. No shows to go to. You guys are my only Watch connection or outlet. HA HA.
jeff

We really try hard to answer questions for the membership. As to your watch, I wouldn't go so far as to call it "rare" but I would call it uncommon, scarce, highly regarded, and quite sought after.

Try and post some pictures of the watch when you can on this topic. We all like to oogle and ahhhh and most of us are addicts or at least affectionados

regards,
bb

Bunn Special Type IIIb 23j 60 hour Mong Dial marked

Another Bunn Special Type IIIb 23j 60 hour Mong Dial marked

Notice "Illinois Watch" on the movement (Type 3b) in this third photo.

4th photo

5th photo

THis watch is in such good condition. no brassing, in fact, looks like I stepped back in time to 1930 and picked it up at the jewelry store.
Well, pretty close.

The watch is not rare. But it is uncommon in this condition. Near mint is what I would call it. In other words you can find 3 at any time but will have to pay alot to get one in this condition. Just remember that an item is always worth more in my mind when it is in my hand.


Regards Gene

I agree with Gene and Buster. Not the rarest but in great condition. A beautiful watch, and to my mind the condition of the watch is as important as rarity. Your watch is highly desired as one of the most sought after American railroad watches. Welcome aboard and have fun!

Thanks Eugene. I will always remember that quote.. your last sentence. I laughed out loud. It is so true... "An item is always worth more in my mind when it is in my hand". In your expertise, how much do you think I should ask for this watch if someone is interested? Is that a fair question?
thanks,
jeff

Hey Richard, thanks for the good word. I see you signed, "Deacon". There is a car dealer in Raleigh NC area named DEACON JONES (car make).

I believe you could put it on IHC and start it at $1500.00 and see where it may go from there.

In fact I will be a bidder somewhere around there depending on condition if you decide to auction it here but, in today's economy it would be wise to keep it stashed away until next year.

A fair value to a buyer for your watch today is $1400-2100. A good sale for the seller today would be $1700-2400. So I would value your watch today at $1550-2250. I have to base my figures on an excellent to near mint conditioned watch as I believe that is what I see.

regards,
bb

Thanks Buster!

Here is one that I sold recently. I sold it for a fair value. Did I get top price, probably Not. 163

Was I happy with what I sold it for. Yes

No $400+ worth of fees on XBay XXXpal. No scamming that they did not receive the item.

What yours is worth: Not a 163 movement, not a pattern back. Not a "23-J" dial. but still worth up to $2,000 or more. What ever TWO FOOLS ARE WILLING TO PAY in an auction setting. JUST FOR THE RECORD. I just sold one so I will not be one of the fools

Jeff I have dealers that make sure I hold it in my hand for a while. Then I pay better. I hope that I have helped you with that question that every one in the world wants to know. HOW MUCH IS IT WORTH.

Jeff -

You surely have a keeper... Therefore, imho -unless you need the cash a watch like that is hard to replace, no matter the short-term monetary gain.

All the best...

Jon, You are so right. You reminded me of something. Years ago I had a solid 18K Howard 18ish size hunter. All original case dial mvmt and hands. Hand made from around 1860. We needed the money and I sold it for a lot of money. But always regret having to do that. I'll never see another.

Thanks Eugene, Jon, Buster, David, and Richard,
You guys convinced me...
Since there are only 2,000 made, I will hold onto it for a while and enjoy it. I love this site. Nice to have a vast pool of knowledge with you guys.
jeff

Jeff; Welcome to IHC 185!

According to serial number runs in the blue book, yours looks to be in the first run of 1000 (5305000-5306000) making yours the 834th watch in that run if you go by the numbers. There are actually two runs of 1000 listed in the book, however they don't differentiate as to markings of course. I personally believe far fewer than 2000 of these were struck. Actually, there is nothing to back up that the entire run was stamped "Illinois Watch" or not, so we may never know the true production.

This was at the start of the changeover to marked grades (1st 163 TypeI 5,334,XXX) so there's no telling if Hamilton used up the older plates as part of this run or not. Maybe someone else can provide more accurate documentation. (Steve M.?)

When I first got started in the early 1990's no one differentiated anything like this even then. I remember once buying a 1631R described as "a 163 stamped on the wrong side". And several others that nothing was said at all about them. No premium at all.

All I do know is I have seen only 4 or 5 examples of this one in 20 odd years of buying and selling, and less than 20 of the 21 jewel version of this same marking.

I suppose having a documented example marked like this with serial #'s at the start middle and end of each particular run would go a long way towards backing up the premise that each entire run was indeed marked this way.

I personally would hang onto it, I do not believe it has gotten the recognition it deserves. While I wouldn't call it rare, it most certainly is uncommon and judging by the few examples I've seen probably a lot more uncommon than you'd think.

I don't know if we have a Type IIIB database on here, but would certainly be a good one to start...Ed?

Jeff your Bunn Special is beautiful, I have 2 of the 21j ones but yours is the most pleasing to look at that I have seen.

Tom, You are awesome, bro.
Thank you so much. You fueled my excitement for the watch. How do I find the IIIb database. I just joined.
THanks again my friend.
jeff