Hi, Gents and Ladies,
A family member recently unearthed a Waltham pocket watch that my grandfather gave to my father back in 1930. For sentimental reasons, I'd like to learn more about it and get it restored. I believe this watch is either 12s or possibly 14s, OF. The movement is not named, but it's marked 17 Jewels and adjusted. It looks to me like a "colonial" series movement shown on p. 142 of the big book (2016). Except for missing crystal and spotted dial, it looks in pretty good shape.

(1) It has a little window and a seconds dial that revolves instead of a seconds hand. Does this have a name, and is it unusual? (2) I have never seen hands like this. Do they have a name, and are they unusual? (3) the dial has lots of corrosion spots. What is the recommended way of restoring this dial? (4) The inside back of the case is marked Waltham, Keystone, 14K, and "Colonial." Since the case is silver-colored and not gold-colored, I'm wondering what the 14K means. Could it be white gold? Thanks for your thoughts!

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Inside back case cover

Your Waltham is a 12 size Colonial Model 1924 with a "Secometer" dial.

It was made late 1920's. The good part is that it's in a solid 14K white gold case.

The dial can be sent off and restored which is a common practice today with the dials. The hour & minute hand are both broken, here is what they should look like[see attachment]. They can be replaced fairly easy.

Nice heirloom

regards,
bb

I restored one these not long ago and Buster is right the dials can be refinished and will look like new ..If you need the dial or watch fixed contact me and i can help you or can send you to someone who will do so.
SAMIE

Where would you send dials to be refinished. Will same places do wristwatch dials?

That is an interesting art deco dial , good luck , there are many good watchmakers here , just check the member directory.

While I have not personally had a metal pocket watch or wrist watch dial refinished, I maintain a listing of some companies that do that type of work. I make no recommendations on either of them, and my "saved" listings go back 10 or more years and they may no longer be in business so perhaps others will chime in with their recommendations or put up new companies not listed and their experiences good or bad.

Its also important to realize that once a dial is refinished, that's "the end" and its like cutting down a tree, one can not undo the make over. Some say never while others say always. I say if a dial takes away from the desirability of the watch to the new owner, then have it refinished " IF" it can be done in the original style.

Kirk Rich Dial Corp.
404 W. 7th St., ste 1215
Los Angeles, CA 90014
(213) 626-6840 or (213) 626-6849

Southern Dial Service
109 North Main Street
Red Oak, TX 75154
972-617-7080

Kirk Dial of Georgia
1325 Chattahoochee Avenue Northwest
Atlanta, GA 30318
404-352-1546

Kirk Dial CO
1424 4th Avenue, ste 625
Seattle, WA 98101
206-623-2452

International Dial Inc
58 West Sugartree Street
Wilmington, OH 45177
937-382-4535

Eagle Dial Refinishing CO
132 South 8th Street, 2nd fl.
Philadelphia, PA 19107
Ph: 215-925-7423

regards,
bb

I am less tolerant of deteriorated or damaged dials than others, but refinished dials are rarely an ideal solution. It takes a long time to get an enamel dial refinished and very expensive; they look refinished to experts. It is much easier to get a metal dial refinished, but refinished dials almost always look slightly inauthentic, e.g., because signature font is wrong. I think it's much better to replace a damaged dial with good original if you can find one.

The watch shown below is a case in point. It's an uncommon 23j Illini -- only about 20 examples are known to exist. These watches reportedly came with enamel dials, but my watch had a deteriorated metal dial on it when I purchased it as a loose movement (since recased in a 14k Knapp case). My jeweler badly damaged that already poor dial when he cleaned it. I replaced it with a dial I took from an A. Lincoln parts movement and had refinished earlier this year. (FYI it cost $130 to refinish the dial.) The refinisher did a good job on the dial, but if I ever see an appropriate enamel dial for sale, I'll buy it to replace the refinished dial.

Walthams with your dial are common and inexpensive. (A perfect 14k example sold at Jones Horan auction for $300.) Before spending a lot on dial refinishing, I'd look for a parts movement on eBay from which you could salvage a good unrefinished dial.

I just had a Hamilton "square cut corner" wrist watch dial from 1928 refinished by International Dial CO. They did an extremely nice job, the service was great. It only took them a week and half to get it done. I have had 3 other dials done by them, each with good results. Gary

I Use international dial or Kirk on the metal dials like on your Waltham either will do a good job for you.

If this were a regular waltham dial i would maybe have one or be able to find a replacement dial,, but being a secometer dial probably not.

Great Big Thanks to Buster, Samie, Ethan, Gary, and others who replied with such great information, pics, etc. I know that this particular mass-produced, art deco Waltham is not particularly rare, or valuable, and will probably never be in a museum,

I just hope I can help it survive another hundred years and be passed down a few more generations for family descendants.

I remember when I was about 19, sanding and priming rust spots on my first car - a crummy Ford Maverick, as I recall -- No matter how hard I sanded, the rust seemed to reappear after a few months. Regarding these metal watch dials - any experience or opinions on how long the refinishing process can be expected to last? I would hate to spend big bucks on refinishing a corroded metal dial if the corrosion reappears!

Thanks again.

Dennis they will last good they have copys of the original dies used to print these ,,they frist sand and smooth the dial then paint and reprint them back to original color..

The seconds rotating disk is fixed to the 4th wheel or what would normally be the second hand for the watch, you have to be careful and not bend the disk when removing it from the 4th wheel.

UPDATE: I'm delighted to report that Samie Smith, one of our IHC185 experts, has restored my 12s 17Jewel Waltham Secometer, with spectacular results. It's hard to believe this is the same watch! The refinished dial looks superb. With new hands, new crystal, new mainspring, and a good cleaning, this pw in a solid 14K white gold case (which my father received from his father as a HS graduation gift in 1930), is now keeping excellent time and looks brand new! Thanks a million, Samie!

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Very cool - Dennis!

wow Samie did excellent job.

Nice Job!

Turned out awesome...

Really nice Job, and worth keeping in the Family for sure.

Congratulations!

Regards,
Larry

Incredible restoration. Bravo Samie and Dennis. Very impressive, Fred