Can someone tell me about the Waltham Export watch?
I knew that there were export watches, but have never really looked into them.
This one looks all original, and I would like to know more about them, IN GENERAL, Not because of this one.

Were they made cheaper? Were most of them from the 1880's like this one? (I think the date on this one is wrong)

Anything you can tell me would be great.

Dial

Waltham had a vigorous export trade to England and other parts of Europe. Most of these do seem to be in the lower grades and are mostly gilt movements. Part of this may have been a preference for gilt movements in these markets. I have copies of some correspondence from 1904 discussing export to Austria, Germany, Italy and the Balkan states.

Jerry,
That's some great information. I knew they sold to other countries, but never thought of the ones you listed. That's great to know and I will add this ingotmation to my notes.
Thank you,

Ok what constitutes a "Export" Watch is it marked differently in a non American case.

Waltham export watches to Britain will commonly be in Dennison cases. They carry names on the movement such as Envoy, Ensign, Traveler, Marquis and others. The dials are very often British in appearance, such as the one Sheila shows, and many are marked "Waltham,Mass." on them (as opposed to just "Waltham"}. A majority of these are shown as "Export" in the serial number list.

There were also many made for the South American trade which were exported by R.R.Fogel and carry his trademark names, such as "Cronometro Victoria" or "Cronometro Supremo". These show up in the serial number list by their trademark name, but also are in groups of "Export" movements. Unlike the bulk of the european export models, Fogel's exports were higher-grade nickel movements. This is one of his lower-grade 15j Cronometro Victoria movements. The Cronometro Supremo was a 21 jewel movement. Both of these "grades" were made in several sizes and models. They were exported in cases made for Fogel, with quality names such as Victoria and Estrella.

Some of his later movements and cases carry his sun logo.

Here is a photo of a pair of 14-size export movements.

I should also include mention of the keywind movements that Waltham continued to make for the British trade, long after stemwind movements were available. Here is a 14-size full-plate keywind that was exclusively for export.

Hey Jerry Thanks for info Something I never paid much attention to. That keywind is not marked the only way to tell on some is by looking up serial number then correct. Like the one Sheila has is not marked as you state either so it must state so when looking up serial number also. Thanks

Hey Jerry I just entered that keywind serial number into the Waltham index and I did not see anything mentioned about Export. Sorry but trying to learn something here.

Yes, the 14-size KW is not listed as an Export. Identifying many of the export models just comes from experience. If a particular model shows high production but is rarely seen (in this country) that is one indication it may have been an export model. For instance, Waltham made over 200,000 14-size full-plate movements but they are rarely seen by American collectors. When I have seen these cased they are usually in English cases.

The labeling on Sheila's movement is also not typical of domestic movements. Most gilt 7-jewel '88 models like this, for the local market, are marked "A.W.W.Co." rather than spelling out the company name.

If you browse the U.K. eBay listings for Waltham you will see many examples of what I have been talking about (including some glaring exceptions). For instance THIS LISTING is for a VERY late 18-size keywind.

Thanks for info Jerry

I acquired one a short time ago that is still awaiting restoration. THis is an 18S model 77 English export private label. This one is in an English made OF sterling case with a springloaded back. The hallmark in the case puts it at 1885 which matches the watch SN2945069, which is listed for around the same year.

Dial first then movement on next post.

Tom

The movement of English Waltham.

Tom

Robert,
I should have listed the Serial Number, It's 8142582, (it looks different) and when I looked it up on the Waltham SN database, it listed it as an Export. That's the only reason I knew it was an Export.

This indicated that it's a model 1888, size 16, 3/4 plate, 7J, Grade Export.

Since I already knew that they made watches for export, I thought it was time to learn a little about them.

I would have never known if I had not seen it in the SN database. I have never looked up any watches with it listed as an Export before.

Jerry,
Your information is Excellent, and it even made me realize that I do notice the English Dials!
The other information will go far in helping me recognize an Export a lot easieer.

I love that you listed some names too, that does help, now I know that the ones I have seen (few) are american. I didn't know that.

This is some "good stuff" Thank You!

Tom,
Great pictures, Thank you! I'll add one more to the list.

Jerry,
Was the "Ensign" delivered with polished brass plates? The reason I ask is that I have one listed on eBay this week and it has highly polished brass plates/bridges. I suppose someone could have done an exceptionally good job of polishing off all the gilding, but it really looks like it was always this way. I've just never seen this on a Waltham before...

Thought I would add my own "Farringdon D." here. The serial number of 2950273 is not too far away from Tom's, however this is a 14S 1876 model.

Good info everyone Thanks I wondered why some of the walthams I have had in the past had foreign hallmarks in the case, they were obviously "Export" models.
Thanks for bringing this subject up for I have learned something new myself.

Of course, not all of Waltham's export movements were low grade. Based on the frequency of surviving examples many 23 jewel "American Watch Company" grade Model 1899 center bridge movements apparently were sold in England with English dials and Dennison cases. Nothing Waltham made at the time was much higher grade than that. I wish I still owned one. Perhaps Tom McIntyre, if he's reading this thread, will favor us with a picture.

Clint

We had a discussion a short while ago of Lindell's Premier Maximus export example. I have a Waltham 5 minute repeater that is still "raw" without either case or dial. It was sold to an English jeweler around 1900.

Here is a picture of my "London Bridge" model with an English 9 carat "Crystal" case.