Hello,
I have a watch marked Peoria Watch Company for Railway Service. Silver/brass case, 12 hour movement, jeweled hands, roman numerals. I think it opens by unscrewing the face and lifting the movement which is hinged. It moves 1/2 an inch and then there is resistance. It runs fine and I don't want to force it open. Is there a trick to opening it? I also assume that once open it can be set, how do I set it?

Thanks in advance

Let's take it one step at a time...

Sounds like you have a "swing~out" cased movement.

So pull straight up on the crown, until you feel/hear a snap. Once it snaps see if you can set the time by turning the crown. After setting the time, push the crown back down. Then you should be able to wind the watch by turning the crown. If not, we will go to step 2.

Now unscrew the front bezel and lay it aside.

You should see a small fingernail indention on the edge of the case and dial under the 6 o'clock position [9 o'clock if reading the dial numerals] which would mean that it definitely is a "swing~out" type case.... However

There should be a cut out that you can see at about the 5 o'clock position. If you could not set the time with the crown, then...

You should see a metal lever down close to the dial at the 5 o'clock position...

Take your fingernail and pull this up straight away to the setting position which means it will pull up 1/4 to 3/8" of an inch. Once in that position you should be able to set the time by turning the crown.

Once time is set, gently ease the set lever back down to a flush position against the dial without it slamming against the dial which will cause a crack or chunk to shatter out of the dial !!

Tell us how you are doing and what else we may help you with

regards,
bb

Hey Buster, You should also add that the reason the movement will not swing out is because the stem is not clear of the movement,and while the crown is pulled up the movement should swing out. Do not force it or the winding stem will break.

One other thing to try if it is a swing ring (hinged ring) and won't swing out far enough is to wiggle the stem while slowly turning it. A lot of those cases had some fine tolerances but if you can get some play in the stem it can help.

Thanks Cecil,

I actually didn't want to confuse him since I heard the word "newbie".

There are problems with anyone, especially a newbie with swing out cases.

1st- If one attempts to swing 'er out, the case screws may be missing and more than likely the movement will crash to the floor or crack the dial on the pendant.

It's apparent that the movement is likely a RR marked one. These are highly regarded and care should be taken. So let's cover this at this time:

To correctly swing the movement up and out here is what you need to know;

Pull up on the crown until it "snaps" in place. Now put your fingernail in the 6 o'clock groove[on the case itself but since it's a hunter in an open face case the groove will be under the 9 o'clock position if one is going by the dial numerals] and gently pry it up just a bit until you can use your thumb and index finger to swing it upwards further. With the crown pulled up the winding stem "should" be clear of the movement in order to observe the movement. Be careful and don't let the movement fall out of the base metal "ring" that holds it just in case the screws that hold it are missing ! AND don't let it come far enough up to damage the dial by coming into contact with the pendant or crown !

While performing this tricky task, if you feel any resistance, do not force anything. Gently try and turn the crown or pull up slightly more to free the stem from the movement in order to swing the movement in it's base metal ring up and out.

The base metal ring that holds the movement should swing up and let one observe the movement. That base metal ring should be hinged at 12 o'clock[or 3 o'clock if reading it by the dial numerals], with a "pin" running thru the hinge to keep the movement in the base metal swing ring. However sometimes that hinge is damaged or the hinge pin is missing and the entire movement and base metal swing ring will come out of the case itself. So be very careful !

If you are sucessful and want to observe the movement and/or photograph it, then do so. When finished, gently lower the movement in it's swing ring back down and use your fingernail on the very edge of the swing ring at 6 o'clock[9 0'clock if reading the dial numerals] to fully reseat it into it's notch or cavity. Once seated flush, push the crown/stem back down into the movement. If any resistance is felt, turn the crown a bit while gently pushing downward until it enters the movement.

Hopefully everything worked correctly and what you wanted was accomplished without event.

If you have a problem[s] along the way, contact us. The most important thing is to be careful and don't use any force to accomplish any of these tasks. If you hit a snag, we will walk you thru it.

It's important that you do this work/tasks on a desk or bench with the watch low to the desk where if anything falls it won't drop far enough to do any damage.

That's why I refrained from going over this since swing~outs are hard to understand for anyone and especially a "newbie". If one runs into a snag or resistance, then stop and ask for further help. It is real easy to damage what's not already damaged by attempting to do something that may not be necessary to begin with.

An old watchmaker once told me when I was a newbie, that only two people need observe a movement, the watchmaker and a fool !

I hope what has been discussed will help.

regards,
bb

Ray, This is a significant collectible watch that is worth some $$$. Take care of it. There were not many made and it is highly sought after.

Hey Buster, I understand your point,but I disagree with your watchmaker. I am neither a watchmaker,nor a fool,but the workmanship that went into these beautiful watches,and particularly in the movements,I think should be shared and not hidden away. It would be like taking a beautiful painting,putting it in a dark room and only allowing artists to see it.

I have this case I think (mine is an Illinois Watch Case Co.). I agree with what was said here about being careful of the watch swinging out and hitting the bow or crown as I have had that happen. Seems like mine has a bit more swing as it is older. I also agree with pulling the crown out (as if you are setting the watch) to give you more clearance to get the movement out. What I found with mine is that turning the crown was really helpful as the stem on my case was not flat on the bottom rather it was a bit sloped (I fixed that) and did not let it open very easily.
Also, when opening the swing out portion be VERY careful of whatever you use to open it (finger nail is the best) as a misguided screwdriver could damage the dial or the sub second hand or both. On mine I do not dig and lift with my finger nail, rather I put my nail in a bit and wiggle it back and forth to basically use my nail as a wedge to pop the case open. When you try to lift it is when you can run into some problems of messing things up.

Ray, are you gettng all of this?

Cecil,

That's an ole joke that's circulated amongst watchmakers for 1oo years about the fool

But it has merit also

I sure hope Ray got something out of this

regards,
bb

Well, even if Ray didn't get anything out of it,it has been entertaining to the rest of us. Ya know Buster,that old saying was probably true when it started,100 years ago. Fine craftsmanship probably was no big deal back then,and watchmakers probably got tired of trying to repair watches that the owner had worked on first. Come to think of it,we still have the same problem 100 years later.

While opening a swing ring case with your fingernail works, be very careful I learned the hard way one time when my finger slipped the pointed end second hand embedded itself under my fingernail, very painful experience, I used to find it easier to use a case opener blade.

Larry

@Larry - Ouch! That is a very good point! I might just take the second hand off now if I plan to do some work on one. It hurts just thinking about it!
Dan

Thanks to everyone for the help. So far I am just reading through the posts to be sure I understand the before trying. I'll post a photo of the movement after I get it opened.

Ray

Ray, One of those thin flat textured rubber pieces sold to help remove Jar and Bottle caps can be a big help in getting a "grip" on the crystal bezel. Also try soaking in some isopropyl at the crack between the body and bezel to help loosen up the crud.

I think what you said is absolutely true Cecil. It sort of reminds me of an art thief who "collects" fine Rembrandts or van Gogh's, only to keep them in his own Safe Room under locks and keys without ever being able to share it with anyone. It just doesn't seem like collecting when it's done that way, does it?

Bud

quote:

It would be like taking a beautiful painting,putting it in a dark room and only allowing artists to see it.

Update. Again, thanks to everyone for helping me. The watch is a lever set and based on your instructions the lever pulls out and the watch sets just fine. I have not tried to see how good of time it keeps, but I expect it to do well.

As for opening the movement, not as much luck. It still opens approximately 1/2 inch and there is resistance on the stem. I did completely rotate the stem and could feel that it is contacting something. The tolerance would seem to be very close so it stays closed. Any other ideas? Otherwise I may just take the old watchmaker's advise.

Ray

Very Good

As a follow-up......

While applying slight pressure on the movement in it's swing ring against the very end of the stem with the thumb and index finger of one hand, try turning, wiggling, and pulling upwards on the crown AFTER you have felt the crown/stem "snap" upwards with your other hand . The very end of the stem is catching on the last mm of the movement winding hole. Just don't use excessive force which is defined as trying to force something which doesn't want to be forced. A bit of pressure may be necessary to accomplish this, but definitely not excessive force. There is a fine line here and you are working with metal to metal contact, but address the two conflicting metals as if they are brittle plastics and you will then be able to equate what is enough pressure and what is excessive force.

A novice owner should be able to accomplish this feat, however anything you are not comfortable with, leave it be. If you fail, take it in hand to a watchmaker and let him try his hand at the problem. If I were a watchmaker I would perform this for anyone, in person, as a complimentary service. But expect to pay for time and expertise as with anything one can't do.

Finally....

Once the task at hand is accomplished, there needs to be an examination of the problem so that it ceases to be a incurring problem. This will need to be addressed by either raising the height slightly of the sleeve/stem inside the pendant with a sleeve wrench, or by examining the very edge/end of the squared stem and perhaps grinding it down by a mm. These two tasks are easily accomplished by the collector or by any competent watch repairman.

[ end of crash course "101" ]

That should suffice, hopefully......but if not, contact me thru an email, watchbbgo1@dishmail.net. You can mail the watch to me and I will take care of the problem for the costs of postage both ways only, as long as you are a member of IHC.

You are an IHC member correct There is a difference in "registering" and being a "member of IHC" you know.....

If you are not a member, click here

Or, here is an even better deal, for you



regards,
bb

Ray,
The case does not have a screw in the base of the stem barrel does it? I ask because I have a hunter case that allows you to move the crown a bit, but a screw keeps the crown from falling out and looks like it was made specifically for lever sets.

Thank you again Buster, Cecil, Richard, Mike, Dan, David and Bud. I couldn't have done it without your help and expertise.

So I was gently pulling on the stem but apparently I was pulling too gently. I little bit more effort gave it room to clear the movement and ir gracefully pivoted out of the case.

"A Work of Art" does not do this watch justice. I was amazed to find the movement fully machined/engraved as well as inside the back. This is just beautiful. The S/N is 15736.

Thanks again.
Ray

And the movement

Bravo !!

Very nice Ray, and glad we could help you.

regards,
bb

Ray,
What a wonderful movement! This was well worth the effort! Thanks for sharing and we are glad we could help!
Dan