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Welcome Aboard IHC185™ Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions How scarce is this Waltham dial?
Internet Horology Club 185 IHC185™ Discussion Site Main Page Horological Discussions, Questions and Answers Pocket Watch Discussions How scarce is this Waltham dial?Go | New Topic | Find-Or-Search | Notify | Tools | Reply to Post | |
How scarce is this Waltham dial? I just purchased this watch. The dial is perfect. Grimy, but perfect. It is a Monty wind-indicator. I haven't seen too many of these. In fact, I am having a difficult time finding much info at all. It is attached to a 23J 16s Vanguard. Any help appreciated. Thanks! Jim Wooldridge  | |||
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| IHC Life Member South-Bend  |
No info except that I've fixed a 21j Crescent St. with the exact same dial. Another question: Where is the wind indicator supposed to be pointing when the watch is completely wound, and then again where does it point when the watch is completely wound down. Frank "407" Kusumoto | |||
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| IHC President Life Member  |
I have a few Waltham "Indicators" or "Up and Down" watches in my collection, but not with that specific dial. Assuming Jim's dial to be porcelain-enamel I'd think it would be very desirable. On the up / down pointer position, I tend to set my pointers so that when all the way down the pointer is at the "D'N" position, then fully wound it usually goes a little past the "UP" position. Not unlike an automotive fuel guage showing above the "Full" when the tank is completely filled.  Of course how you set the pointer comes down to your own personal choice. By the way, I think these watches are undervalued and represent a bargain in top condition. 23-Jewel 6-Position Vanguard in Rose GF Case...  | |||
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My pick would be pointing at the 0 at the up position when fully wound. James, nice dial, I think it is very rare to find a dial in this condition on waltham indicators any more. Denny | ||||
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"Assuming Jim's dial to be porcelain-enamel I'd think it would be very desirable". I agree with Lindell 100%. Some details I see make me doubt this dial. For instance, the up/down hand seems poorly framed by lines on the dial. It also appears a bit too flat in the photo to be double sunk. This is just my observation of course. A pic of the back of the dial would solve the matter quickly. -Cort | ||||
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IHC Life Member |
I have Waltham Vanguard with a very similar dial, except that it also says "Vanguard 23 Jewels" and has a slightly different wind indicator dial. The wind indicator dial is sunk just like the seconds dial is sunk, but the dial has a black circle inside the hours chapter to imitate the usual double sunk dial. I am attaching a poor picture.  | |||
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| IHC Life Member |
I should add that, since taking the picture, I had had the up/down indicator adjusted so that it is right on the zero when the watch is fully wound. | |||
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Thanks for the comments, everyone. The dial is most definately enamel and has no outwardly signs of an authenticity issue. I should have time to take it off and photograph the back tonight. Jim Wooldridge | ||||
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| IHC President Life Member |
Upon reflection... It probably makes far more sense that if you were actually using the watch the indicator pointer be set at "0" when fully wound. Then you'd have a clear indication of how much time you have left. That way the approximately thirty-hour mainspring would be down to the "24" each day when it's time to wind it. My watches are rarely wound so I had not really thought out the original intent before now. Thanks to Denny Iwen for pointing out what really should have been obvious! | |||
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IHC Member 163 |
It's not that obvious, Lindell, as we're used to seeing our current counters in a count down set up...so it's easy to confuse direction. I know unless I think about it for a minute, I'd think if it's near zero, the watch was almost wound down (zero power left in the spring), where in the description above, you're saying it's fully wound at zero, and it's showing how many hours it's run as it progresses.  Regards! Mark | |||
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| IHC President Life Member |
Thanks Mark, On these watches having it showing zero when fully wound is most logical as that would indicate to the user how many hours since the last wind. That means when it counts down to 12 you're about half way. Then when it is at the 24 you have about 4-6 hours to go as most of the Walthams will run for thirty hours or so if I recall correctly. That 24 area is of course when the watch is due for its daily winding. My error in not thinking out the Waltham scale fully before is because my indicator watches when run down (as they usually are) look nicer to my eye with the pointer at exactly the "down" position. But it is interesting to also consider the "power reserve" scale on a wristwatch that shows how much time is left on the wind. It becomes one of those... "Is the glass half empty of half full" ...kind of things. Taking it even further, Elgin Up and Downs show "40" at the "D'N" position and the Rockford Indicators are to my way of thinking the best designed scale of all. As you'll see below, the scale on this 16-size Grade 655 Rockford Indicator strongly suggests "WIND" at the 24 area but "DOWN" is at 36 hours. I believe they run about 40 hours. There was no dial design consistancy among the different makers. The "Rockford Indicator" scale expresses it better...  | |||
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Here is a photo of the back of the dial to answer an earlier question. Any concerns? Jim Wooldridge  | ||||
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James, You have an outstanding watch there. Very unusual dial too, Congratulations! Looks Perfect to me. Sheila | |||
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