Aloha, I have a Elgin movement that someone has glued the dial on, probably because of missing one or more dial feet. Can any 185 member give me advice as to what to do with this situation? Soak in acetone or would that loosen up the pallet stones. Any guidance would be appreciated. Mahalo, Fred

Been in situation like yours myself I was fortunate enough to pry off the dial with out doing any damages to it I used screwdriver under the dial and very slow and softly pry at the location of the legs and my dial just pop out hope this help you but you might want to wait for others to give you better advise .

Aloha Peter, thank you for your information and advice. Yes, I will wait to possibly hear from others as to their experience with a glued on dial before I attempt to remove it either mechanically or chemically. Mahalo, Fred

Fred,

You should be able to remove the balance and pallets from the other side before you soak it in anything. I don't think any of the other parts will be harmed by soaking in solvent. All will need disassembly and cleaning anyway.
Good luck and let us know how things come out.

Steve

Use One Dip Hairspring cleaner

I might have a dial , actually I have a couple low grade elgins , let me know if you need them

Aloha Stephen, Billy, and Kevin thank you very much for the tips on how to deal with this vexing situation. For your added information this is an Elgin Ball so it is worth solving this issue without damaging the movement (then look for a replacement ORRS dial ). Maybe the best way to do this is to let the power down, disassemble the movement and soak the dial, pillar plate with the center wheel and canon pinon still attached to the pillar plate until the glue dissolves as Stephen suggests. I think I need some professional help as well but I am going to be patient and take my time on this puppy. Mahalo nui for the suggestions. Very much appreciated and please keep 'em coming...Fred

Aloha Steven, I just noticed I spelled your name incorrectly. Please accept my apology. Mahalo, Fred

Well Cancel my dial offer , I have no elgin ball dials !

Aloha Lindell, Thank you very much for your interesting reply and thank you for the important link. Very much appreciated. The serial number of this Elgin Ball is 12279108 (my apology for not including the serial number in the first instance). I do not have a replacement dial so I am going to have to search for one to restore this movement. Maybe an ORRS EB dial will turn up on Ebay. Unfortunately, I did NOT buy this EB on Ebay. I bought it directly from a member of the ***** who assured me that if I was not satisfied I could return the watch but reversed himself and would not allow me to return the watch for a refund when I advised him I was not satisfied. I consider the incident tuition at this juncture. Again, thank you very much for your post. It will be interesting to see if anyone else has any ideas for the removal of the glued on dial. Mahalo nui, Fred

Interesting.... What was the reason given for the seller reversing his satisfaction guarantee ?

A man is only as good as his word sure comes to mind here.

A glued on dial with a satisfaction guarantee if your not happy, says to me a super shady character that does these things often.

regards,
bb

Aloha Buster, He allowed me a small cash refund and said that "he felt the amount was adequate" but would not accept the return of the watch. I even told him that I accepted the deal at his word but it made no impression. Like I said, this was tuition. I have no clue as to his history. Thanks for your concern. Mahalo, Fred

Aloha Lindell, thank you for your post and your sincere and precious concern. I appreciate it very, very much. Please allow me the privilege of updating this "glued on dial" matter. I had already sent this vexing watch to my "watch guy" before receiving your post. As he reported to me, believing that the dial feet must have been removed, working very carefully with a small screw driver (with great skill) and starting at the location of each dial foot he was able to gently and carefully "worry" his way around the dial, back and forth, very carefully wedging the dial upward until each dial foot (discovered that they were still there) became gradually more loose until he was able to free the dial from the movement without any damage whatsoever to either the pillar plate or the dial. And...surprisingly, all three dial feet were intact and undamaged. All three dial foot screws were not screwed in to the dial feet.

In the post mortem of this event it appears that someone must have been unaware of the existence of the dial feet screws (???), did not know how to fix the dial to the movement and decided to put a dollop of glue on each dial foot to fix it in place on the pillar plate!! I am at a complete loss as to whether this is the case or not: only speculating. In any event, after removal of the dial from the movement, all the glue was able to be removed from both the pillar plate and the dial feet so the movement can be serviced and restored properly. So, in the end, the prospect of the dial being damaged in removal was avoided by some very good luck and skillful work of my "watch guy" and I am pleased with the outcome.

Thank you to all (Lindell, Buster, Kevin, Billy, Steven, and Peter) who offered advice and council to me. At this juncture I am in a good place.

Mahalo nui ka kou, Fred

Glad it worked out for you !! There are more inept repairmen than good ones, no doubt ! Sounds like someone didn't have dial screws and opted to glue it down.

Crazy World we live in today.......

regards,
bb

Glad to hear Fred's dial came off OK, I imagine an Elgin Ball dial would be next to impossible to find.Not trying to derail this Elgin Ball post, but were all Elgin Ball watches cased in their own marked cases, or were they ever sold as movements only? Thanks!...Ted.

Aloha Buster and Ted, thank you for your positive comments. As I said there was some luck and a very competent watch maker that made this possible. Ted, you are correct in that EB dials are very difficult to find. I must leave the case question to others... Please have a nice day, Mahalo, Fred

The large majority of 18s Ball-Elgin movements were sold in all sorts of cases by different case makers Ted to my knowledge, not just Ball Model marked cases.

Thanks Bila, I kind of figured that but didn't know.Take care, Ted.

i wonder if whoever did this knew what he was doing,,He had in my opinion already changed a dial before this one ,he was able remove the hands and the old dial ,install this dial and put the hands back on....Could be the dial screws were missing and rather than find some he used glue or dial dots on the feet to hold the dial in place...The dial feet screws on the Ball Elgin are not easy to find just any old 18 size Elgin dial screws will not work on the Ball Elgin.

Fred, Glad you were able to get it corrected.

Aloha Samie, thank you very much for your post. When all is said and done I got really lucky with this dial. The dial is in perfect condition both the dial face and the dial feet. It is back together and running fine. We will never know what this individual was thinking when this was done. Mahalo, Fred

Aloha Lindell, thank you very much for your comments and your post. Yes, it is wonderful to have the members offering their valuable insight and advice. Very rewarding to be sure. Here are pictures of the obverse and reverse of the dial. Mahalo nui, Fred

Dial Reverse

Interesting Lindell that all 18s Ball model movements were in fact factory cased, is this for Elgin models only or the others as well. When you refer to Factory casing are you talking about 18 size cases marked with "Ball Model" for all the manufacturing watch movement suppliers of 18 size movements to Ball?

Thanks for the info Lindell, just another question to rack your brain with.

Memory is not as good as it use to be, but somewhere I remember seeing a catalog pamphlet that shows 16s & 18s Ball watches for sale as movements only, maybe not in the US but in Canada. Is it possible some uncased movements made there way back to the US from Canada?

Thanks Lindell, I am going to go back thru my old Watch document folders to see if I can find that Canadian info, if I do I will post it here.

The original documentation with regard to the Ball advertising for movements timed and cased dates from the 1902 -03 period at the earliest, I think!

This time frame does not cover early Ball watches (especially in 18 size) made before this period, is there any documentation that states that these early movements were timed and cased by Ball?

Good stuff Lindell thanks. No harm in reminding members of the vast info here!
Mike