Hello Everyone,
I recently picked up a 990, what is the correct dial for these? Mine has a single sunk Roman numeral style, would an arabic numeral railroad style be correct? Also does this watch take a 3 or 4 foot dial.
Gary

I have two 990's and one is a 4 foot and one is a 3 foot so without the serial number it is hard to say if you have a 3 or 4 foot. Also the serial number is a bit up in the air since during the change-over range they were mixed so at best you would need to check your current dial (or just count the hold down set screws on the side of the pillar plate). Both or my 990's are Arabic numbers since these were considered Hamiltons best 16s 21j RR watch I would expect most if not all to have double sunk dials with Arabic numbers.

The movement serial number is 308,064.

Lindell: Your comment about double sunk dials caught my attention. MY 990 is #302212, and has a single sunk dial that in all other aspects is the same as you have shown here. The movement is unmarked as to grade and is shown as a single roller movement. Is this a "railroad grade" watch? Also I believe the dial is four footed, although I have not looked at it for quite awhile.

Jerry Freedman

I am not sure the 990 was ever a single roller, if my memory is correct the 990 started out as a double roller and the 992 started out as a single roller, in later years it was switched to a double roller movement.

That 990 is indeed a handsome movement Lin. The juxtraposition of matte and polished zones in the design render a nearly two-toned overall effect.

Claude: The Lasser List shows a series of 990s as being single roller. The numbers shown are 302201 to 302300.

There was a run of 100 prior to yours, the 1st run 302,001-302,100 so it must have been the first run of the 990 that was single roller since I did find a note "double roller after 302,201" that is noted on a Hamilton RR standard site so someone is off a bit since your watch is 302,212. They show 16,490 made so it appears that all of the first run was single roller I am not sure about the 2nd run since was after the serial number run of 302,201-302,300 which is after the note 302,201.

Like most of you I strive to have my collection conform with contemporary advertising to the greatest extent possible. So, as to the "Double-Sunk Dial" question, my research reveals that every Hamilton Catalog and every Advertisement I can find dating from as early as 1905 and including 1909, 1910, 1915, 1918 through to the end of Grade 990 production in 1919 all contain the same basic language...

_________________________________________________________

No. 990 Open Face. Nickel, 3/4 Plate Movement, Lever Set Only. 21
Extra Fine Ruby Jewels in Gold Settings, Steel Escape Wheel, Double Roller
Escapement, Poised Fork and Sapphire Pallets, Micrometric Regulator,
Breguet Hairspring, Compensation Balance, Double Sunk Dial, Accurately
Adjusted to Temperature, Isochronism, and Five Positions.
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The words "Double Sunk Dial" appear on every Grade Number 990 Advertisement that I have been able to find and they were apparently sold both as "movement-only" which would be cased and timed by the retail jeweler and factory cased as well. Based upon this information I think it fair to conclude that all but perhaps some very early examples were Double Roller and from at least 1905-on they came from the factory with "Double Sunk" Dials and the "Double Roller" Escapement. Whether some early watches had Single Sunk Dials, which I would seriously doubt and whether any of the earliest examples may have originally had Single Roller Escapement is open to further examination.

Please excuse me when I get a little "warm-under-the-collar" over the kinds of errors some folks have put into their own made-up "lists" and by that I mean errors based primarily upon speculation extrapolated from "sightings" mixed with hearsay and then put forward as if they were original factory records, which they are not. I urge caution when it comes to some of the "lists" that are being circulated or posted these days by certain self-promoters.

To check the approximate production date of your watch by the movement number our authoritative "Hamilton Movement Numbers Preserved by John F. Gelson" is always your best source.

Lindell everything I had ever seen on the 990 was that it started out as a double roller and I have no doubt that Hamilton's best 16s 21j watch would have been sent out with a double sunk dial. I would wonder why Hamilton would have even thought of putting a single roller on the 990 when Elgin released the grade 214 in 1899/1900 with a double roller, from the start of it's production. Six years later one would think one of the best watches Hamilton produced would not roll out with a single roller since by the time the 990 was produced the DR was de-facto on the top of line movements. For comparison Elgins 17j 280 moved to a DR ~1903, the 17j grade 342 was a DR in 1905, the Elgin 21j grade 270 was a DR as of 1904 all before the the 990 were released. Of course I don't understand why a lot of people pass the 990 by and go hog-wild for a 992 of the same vintage. I have 2 990's and will take them any day of the same vintage 992, it's a better made watch with a few extras like the poised fork that should make it a slight bit more accurate. If Hamilton tossed 100-150 out there with a SR I would really be surprised since being a SR would have been a marketing disadvantage compared to Elgin and others that were offering the DR on their mid-segment 17j watches.

Just to add a little "jet-fuel" to the fire, if you look at the 1903 OY catalog on the Elgin site you will see that the Hamilton 942/943 were listed as double roller and double sunk dial and all grades down to the 934 are listed with DS dials. the grade 938/939 17j DR/DS and the first 18s listed with a SS dial is the grade 927. For the 16s the 960/961 DS/DR, the 970/971 DS/DR so I would really have to wonder why on the 990 which would have been Hamilton's top of the line 16s 21j movement along with the 991 and to make it a SR since Hamilton was already committed to a DR as early as 1903 and maybe a bit before on it's top of line 16s 21j movements and even some of it's better 17j 18s movements.

Thanks to everyone for their input, I guess I need to look for a dial for my 990, any thoughts as to what would be a proper replacement. Also my watch is a double roller version.

One like Lindell posted would be correct, maybe the very last 990's (1918-1919) might have had block Hamilton, off hand I can't say for sure since both of mine are earlier than that. Your sn is before Lindell's and I think your sn is after the cutoff for the 4 foot dials so you might find a correct dial on a parts 974 dial.
I went back and checked and I was correct about the later "block" Hamilton possibly being on the very last runs of the 990 but I wasn't sure about the very first runs and I guess technically the very early 1905-1906 runs might have had the Hamilton Watch Company style dials. I would expect any 990 from 1906 to 1917-18 to have the script type font that is on Lindell's watch.

Dials and dates for 992/990