Hi Guys,
No photos at present, but I have an interesting piece. I am not too familiar with US watches and have a big full hunter gold filled watch. The dial is very ornate and marked Elgin natl watch Co. The movement (which has the balance near the center) is marked Illinois and Springfield. It is crown wound and also has an aperture for key wind also. Both ways of winding work perfectly. The movement number dates the watch to 1883. My question is.. did Elgin and Illinois have a partnership, and is this dual wind movement rare?. Although I am not familiar with US watches, I have a decent knowledge of English watches if anyone requires any help identifying a piece.
Thanking you in anticipation.
Gregb.

Greg WElcome to our club! To help answer your inquiry, the "Dual Wind" movement is what we refer to as a "transitional" movement that used Key wind movment parts and added the "new" stem wind features assembled to the dial plate for easier winding of the watch. Your movement should look somewhat like the picture below.

As Elgin had no direct business connection with Illinois Watch Co., I think the Elgin dial was added later by some enterprising individual. It may be glued on to the movement as many early Illinois Springfield dials were "pinned" type, and Elgin dial posts were not interchangeable.

When you can post a picture that would help. You might try the free download of "picasa 3" from google for that as "picasa" processed" pictures load to our site very easily.

Hi David,
Thanks very much for the info. Are the transitional movements rare items or were lots made? I will try to photograph soon. I will also check to see if the dial is glued abd update you.
Gregb

Greg, The US-made transitional movements were reasonably rare as they were made in the few thousands needed to exhaust the dwindling inventories of Key Wind parts. They represented the technical transition of the Pocket watch from a miniature Key Winding "clock" to a more precise and complicated "timepiece" capable of higher accuracies. For that reason they are well worth collection. Your watch should have an Illinois dial.
You might enjoy my little subject on one of these here. Look at;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1086047761/m/5071045923

HI GUYS
CHECK THIS LISTING OUT ON EBAY 280283965435. THIS IS A ILLINOIS TRANSITIONAL WITH AN ELGIN DIAL. DIAL FIT LIKE A GLOVE
LEONARD

Leonard, I wonder if they blew the hole in the dial face where the dial post is when they were cutting off the post to stick it on that Illinois Movement! Maybe its a new brand; "Elgillinois"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2802...ategories%26_fvi%3D1

YOU COULD BE RIGHT DAVE
LEONARD

Maybe that makes it an "Illinelgin"!

Guys,
I can't believe it! This is the exact watch that I bought!! I bought it from a dealer over here that said he bought it from someone from New York. When you see the listing, the seller was from New York. The dial has been filled with a white compound where the hole is/was. I now see what he paid, and I paid a lot more for it!! It interested me because I'm a sucker for fancy dials. Its a bit hard to take, but I live and learn. I had a crystal put in it, and it has had a light oiling, and seems to keep better time than it was described on Ebay, in fact its near perfect now. I feel a shcmuck lol.
Gregb

Greg,
Don't feel that way! Please.

You decided what you would pay, so it's worth that much.

I love those dials too, and I pay more for them, and it is an unusual watch too!

I've paid a lot more than most, for a watch that I really love, that most collectors would not touch, so you made a good deal for sure.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

My eye says it's a really nice watch.

Congratulations!


(I ask you, who wouldn't love this?)

Hello,
Here is another one of those fancy dials on a BWR Elgin.
There is a hairline from center post running to the outside edge at about minute 49.

Regards,
Jerry

A little closer

Movement

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the comforting words lol. here are a few pics of some of the fancy dial watches I have owned in the past.

And this...

....

While i have just found out how to upload the photos, I have bragging rights on owning this item which is now in the Jaeger LeCoultre museum in Switzerland. This watch was signed by Francois Le Coultre who was the uncle of the founder of the company. This was dated by Jaeger at about 1830-1840 and they were extremely keen to buy it.
Its a stunner with fabulous champleve enamel work on the case.
Gregb

dustcover..

dial...

movement... The case was 18k by the way.

You have every right to brag, must have been hard to let that one go even if the price was right. Love that case!

Tom