This very fine Illinois 18s two tone 17J Adjusted watch had only one "defect", a War Plastic crystal. Sadly on its "last ride" ("humming along" and vibrating in the trucks and airplanes, etc., etc.) to my place the ruined and rusted hand particles ground off a considerable amount of the Arabic Black Enamel Arabic Hour marks on an otherwise fine double sunk dial.

When you get a watch with a "yellowed" crystal IMMEDIATELY pop the crystal out and send the bezel to William White for a top quality Glass replacement to avoid seeing RED!

Ouch! That one hurts! Can the dial be cleaned without further damage? I sure hope so.
Does the center wheel arbor have damage, too? The rust looks pretty extensive. Let us know how the clean-up goes.

Mary Ann, I sent the dial to International Dial for them to see if they can clean and re-number it, meantime I put on an ishy replacement dial new hands and a mainspring I have this . . . which will be further restored and cleaned up and made as "spiffy" as possible.(s/n 2731737)

Dave - glad to see that the movement wasn't damaged. That's a pretty damascening pattern. Is it checkerboard or like a satin ribbon stripe?

The movements are (In my opinion) "protected" by the watch hands oxidizing first (unless immersed in salty water) from humidity.

This one was pretty tough, but fortunately nobody had tried taking the hands off so I did it with enough TLC to even be able to use the "stumps to measure up a new set of hands from my Elgin cabinets. (Just like many watchmakers-past must have done who just wanted nice matching hands.)

The dial I put on it will actually clean up and repair pretty well. So it may stay on this movement because it has the right signature.

The Grade 89 movement is referred to as; "Gold Inlay Engraved and two tone Gold Nickel Checkerboard Damaskeened movement with Gold Plated 'Patent regulator' and polished gold plated plate screws." Adjusted to three positions. Double-sunk Glass or enamel dial signed "Illinois Watch Co."

This finish treatment with all the Gold hardware was rarely done.

David

I have a similar watch from a few runs later, I think they are a nice looking watch. I picked it up on Ebay recently for under $25.00

Tom

I also got this one in last week that had the same type of yellowed plastic dial, it was eating away the hands too, the dial isn't that great but it is a 21 jewel A. Lincoln.

Tom

Tom,

It must have happened before as well because those don't look like the right hands for it either.

Steve

Thanks Steve, I still am not able to spot correct hands, other than the second hand appeared wrong. I will have to see what I can find for it, the movement looks good other than a broken mainspring.

Tom

Tom,

They look like later style Hamilton hands which Hamilton used on other Illinois watches assembled in the early 30's. I have gotten some of the "leftover" movements that have those hands on them. The movement below is a 19 jewel movement that was assembled in the early 30's.

Steve

Tom,
Here is another one I just won today, it's a Bunn 19 jewel 60 HOUR, that has those hands on it as well as the Hamilton "Boxcar" dial. These were very slow sellers for Illinois and there must have been a bunch of these in the vault when Hamilton took them over. I have purchased 6 of these movements with those dial and half of them have the Hamilton style hands as well.

Steve

Thanks Steve, go ahead & wrap all those Bunn's up & send them my way! I feel the earth tip a little, too much weight up north, we need to redistribute the weight. No personal motives here, just looking out for our safety.

Tom

This is an interesting corrosion mechanism. Perhaps the plastic is breaking down chemically and releasing some kind of organic acid. Those can be very corrosive.

Yes Ed, it seems it only happens with the plastic crystals that yellow with age, I have had some others that looked just like David's, were nothing was left but little nubs. Not sure what happens but I would guess it is something put off by the plastic, otherwise any crystal would cause the same problem.

Tom

Many of the early plastics are HYGROSCOPIC i.e. water absorbent. For example when the Nylon Model airplane propellor first came out in the 1950's we quickly learned to give them a brief "dip" in Boiling water to surface harden them for better performance. Later this became known as "steam tempering" and is now a common treatment for many shorter molecule hydrocarbon plastics.

The "war plastic" were WORSE! To conserve plastic for plexiglass windshields and the like, during (and after) WWII a cellophane-like substance was made (from wood cellulose materials) and actually marked or packaged as "war plastic" which was a water sponge!

Not only this cellulose plastic absorb water it "exhaled" water towards the direction of lowest humidity too! Add to that the already Oxygen reactive materials in the watch and you had a guarenteed aquatic action watch hand destroyer that started the minute it was put on the watch.

In extreme cases you could see water droplets actually condensing on the inside of the watch crystal.

I have several boxes of plastic pocket watch crystals. The boxes are marked with a symbol,crossed cannons,and Ordnance Department USA,inspected and accepted by M. Kirkegard,Nov,1950. Another sticker reads,Item Crystal,Plastic,stock no. F036-7198396,Ord. Dwg. No.A-7198396,Mfg's No.1770,Used On Watch,Pocket,Elgin. Date packed Sept.1950. I have used many of them,and I still have several unopened boxes,but I am amazed by the fact that they are all still clear as glass,and like new after all these years.

Cecil, Those are fine, tough, safe crystals. The "War Plastic" was only used for sale to the General Public not military use.

Wow, thank you for this post. I have two watches with those crystals, and I will remove them right away. Their loose anyway, so I should be able to remove them. Wow! something I can actually, and finally, take apart!

Great post!

Shelia, there's NOTHING that one can not take apart. It's the 'getting back together' that's the challenge!

Regards! Mark

LOLOLOL

Mark, you have NO IDEA how capable I am at having parts just povalt across the room do you?

Not only am I sure, of how hard it is to get a watch back together, I know how hard it is, just to FIND the parts that are ALL OVER THE ROOM when I OPEN a watch!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, this has happened to me, just because I opened a dust cover!!!

I'm WELL practiced in the Art of, trying to take a parts container out of a drawer, only to find parts in OTHER rooms in the house, from when I tried to open it!!!

I'm also practiced in the EXCLUSIVE ART of having my desk drawer come crashing down all over my living room, and of course, it's ALWAYS full of at least a million itty bitty parts that don't want to be left out of the "Tick Sheila Off" conspiracy that I swear is going on here.

Yes, They talk to me, and I hear them fighting over what they are going to do next.

Last........

And YES, I hear them tempting me to "JUST TRY TO TAKE ONE APART, IT WON'T HURT" !!!!

Yeah Right!

I will continue to buy parts, but I'm at the point, where I quickly put them in a secure spot, until they learn, that they will not tempt me to open the container.

Work on a watch????????

Not until the conspiracy stops, but we all know what consistant, ruthless, and enduring little rascals they can be.

LOLOLOL

back off, get back in that jar, stop that, don't you dare!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sheila

You make me think of my wife & her hate of the vacuum, to watch her you would think that the vacuum has a mind of it's own & is out to destroy her. It always cracks me up to watch just to hear her argue with the machine.

But usually I try to take it over from her, because I have also learned that if I don't do it the anger some how ends up pointed in my direction eventually.

Tom

A woman after my own heart.

Smart too!!!

Gotta love a gal like that!

And I will bet that Tom does, Sheila....

Jerry

Yep, 31 years so far & she has yet to kick me out!

Tom

No doubt in my mind!

I've been hitched for 42 years, and I think I'll keep him too!

He does dishes, and makes the BEST COFFEE in the world.

Besides that, he's a hunk, my hunk. mmmmmmmmmm

Warning! Don't get me started!

Sheila

I do the dishes, laundry, housekeeping, yard work, auto up keep, house remodeling & work full time, but you also have to remember that I was raised by 10 sisters, mother & grandmother all in one house.

One other thing, I was born to shop too!

Tom

Hey Sheila,
You got me by one year. I've been hitched to Ole Whatsername for 41 years. I'm gonna dump the old broad one of these days. Just waiting for the right time. I have the answer to the finding the lost parts problem. Just walk across the floor barefoot. You will find every one of them.

Tomorrow is my 33rd anniversery, so I'm in your rearview mirror.

Regards! Mark

Sheila,
and i thought I was the only one with the conspiracy theory when it came to opening watches.
WOW you just lifted a load of my shoulders, I guess I'll cancel the trip to the shrink.
Bill

Sheila - you almost always get me to laugh when I read your posts! You have a knack for taking everyday trials and tribulations and making them funny. Thank you for making us smile!

Richard and I have been married for 35 years (my Dad lost a big bet!). Have you noticed that, of those who posted how long they have been married, all are at least 30 years! Maybe watch collecting makes for better marriages.

I have to agree with Cecil's method of finding those pesky dropped and lost parts. Works every time. Or have Tom's wife get out her vacuum. It will find them, too!

Well Mark, it is tomorrow back in Tennesssee, so Happy #33....hope it's a nice day for you and your bride of 33 years....

It's nice to hear all this longevity in marriage and being with ones partner for extended times....

Next month will be our #39 and like I've told my wife, Mary Ann, "Honey, if you ever decide to leave, just pack my bag too and I'll go with you"....

Regards,
Jerry

Thank you, Jerry!

Regards !Mark

Only one problem with parts on the floor under the desk.

The amount of stuff that collects before I get down and search for the parts. It's just terrible.

I get the entire living room rug clean, and there it is, the nastiest spot in the place.

yuck!

I'm getting old, but I won't lose parts, no never.

getting on the floor isn't as easy as it used to be. pooooo