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I just purchased what the databases and the seller said was a 992e. It has a serial #2582731 which puts it in the first run/first year of 992e production with the narrow stripe demaskeen but it isn't marked elinvar anywhere on the movement. Could this movement have been produced as a regular 992 or maybe the plate with the marking replaced, or what?
|IHC Member 1555|
I would be checking the number on the pallet bridge Dennis. If it is the same it possibly factory changed from an Elinvar to a standard 992 if the serial is different then someone has had a play
Thanks Bila...how much of the movement needs to be taken apart to find the number?
|IHC Member 1555|
Just lift the balance cock and balance assembly from the movement Dennis first. Then let down the mainspring so to ensure there is no power, then you will be able to carefully lift the pallet bridge to check the serial. You will see a small pry point cut on the underside for the purpose of lifting from memory. Just be careful on re-assembly so you do not damage a pivot or jewel
Thanks Bila...a watchmaker just told me that all the numbers on the parts match the serial number of the movement. That means that it's a 992 with a 992E serial number. I understand that there is a run of 400 992s between the first and second runs of the 992Es but THIS serial number is not even in that run....not sure what it all means in term of rarity, but I doubt that many of these were produced. It would be great to hear from anyone who would know more about that: Tom Dunn, Lindell, etc.?
Dennis and Bila,
Here are the listings for these...
Possibly a factory error during production.
Sometime in the last ninety years wanted to change that pallet bridge for whatever reason. And do not ever forget that for some of those years there were a few people in this hobby who enjoyed changing things around in order to "create" an unusual item thereby claiming "extreme rarity" and collecting extra money for it while playing their childish mind games.
And they were not above scratching a number on a replacement part to reinforce their dubious claims. Apparently "putting one over" on others held a strange fascination for them.
Unfortunately, the "products" of their foolishness remain to cause confusion.
Of course what makes a movement "ELINVAR" is the balance wheel, not any of the markings.
(Contact me directly Dennis as I have a couple watches you once wanted and have been unable to reach you by phone.)
Always worthwhile to read yours and Bila's nice postings.
Be careful and stay well my friends,
Thanks for the reply Lindell... I have the Gelson catalogue of serial numbers as a favorite and can see that my watch #2592731 is shown to be in the first run of the 992Es but it is a 992. When I get it back in my possession, I'll have my watchmaker take pics of the pallet bridge, etc to show that the numbers match..look for the email I just sent...thanks again!
|IHC Member 1610|
I have also noted that Hamilton very often mixed in very short runs or even single watches within runs that were never documented. I have seen Hamilton 927's with the demaskeen of the Hamilton 927 but had 925 inscribed on the movement. I have seen three of these. I have a Hamilton 927 with the demaskeen pattern of a 935. Although not common Hamilton was known to switch things up a bit.
Thanks Harry...I'll be sending the watch to my watchmaker tomorrow who will take picks of the pallet bridge #, etc. for proof that it is a factory anomaly
My watchmaker just sent me pics of the parts of the watch that confirm that the numbers match the movement #2582731...here are two of them:
So...it's a genuine original factory made 992 movement with a 992E serial number
|IHC Member 1338|
Basically, without that Elinvar marking, all you have is a 992. Numbers matching or no, it just won't qualify as a "narrowstripe" to buyers so unfortunately won't bring the 400-500 or more that the narrowstripes do. Or worse yet may raise additional questions as to the validity of the watch to a lot of buyers.
Did you buy the watch as a narrowstripe and pay more FOR it? If so, you may be able to send it back? Be my only guess...
You're probably right Tom...When I first saw the lack of the elinvar marking I wrote the seller and told him about it and that I might have to return it but wanted to research it a little more thinking it could be a factory anomaly and become a collector's item and that it is BUT it's still a 992. The problem is I prematurely decided to keep it so I had it COAed, the case professionally polished and new glass crystal. The movement is essentially flawless, so it's a beautiful watch at least. And, it'll always be a collector's item and when I choose to sell it, I might get my $ back, but hey, we can't always make money from our hobbies...
|IHC Member 1338|
Well, that being said, SHOW US A FRONT AND BACK PICTURE! What model case does it have?
992s that are near flawless in factory Hamilton Railroad Model cases sell for 400-500 depending on case style. I wouldn't take less than 400 for any of mine. Here's a Model 7 Cased One I Sold Below:
HAMILTON 992 IN A MODEL 7 CASE SOLD BY TIME MACHINE
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