Does anyone know how Illinois and others got the "plum" color on their hands?I know how the blue ones were done, but have never heard how they did the plum ones... Ted.

I don't know, but I do know they are nearly the same color as the top strap on the early model Ruger Blackhawk revolvers. I suspect they use the same blueing salts. If you can find an old gunsmithing book, something like Modern Gunsmithing, by Clyde Baker (published in 1920) it will have eight or ten recipes for making up coloring agents to use on steel, copper, brass, silver, and other metals. Unfortunately, my copy got away when I lost my house, or I'd look it up. I remember reading in there, at least one formula for imparting a reddish purple, and one for a bluish purple to steel. (Of course, Federal agencies and current laws being what they are, your chances of being able as an individual to buy any of the reagents are slim to none. God forbid you might hurt yourself with them.) As I recall, all of the steel coloring formulae contain a fairly reactive acid; usually sulfuric, nitric or hydrochloric, or a combination of them in solution.

The hands are "blued" to that color via heating to high temperature. Take a look at this thread to a blueing machine a few of us have built here on the site to create blued steel hands. Plum hands are archived at around 550 degrees F. The old school method is a bit more involved and is probably discussed here somewhere, but the concept is the same.
Scroll down on the post and you will see a color to temperature table that specifies the temerature needed to get the color desired.

Dan

When re-heating hands to "blue" I have seen them go through the Plum color first, then transition to blue. I am sure the process is much more complicated though.

That is correct David.

My hands guy tells me that is exactly what happens, but trying to get them out/off of the heat at the exact time is the real trick. He says that it is just not worth it as one would ruin way to many hands to get one good set.

Also if you were to look, there are MANY different heat charts that also have different temps on them. I guess it has a lot to do with the metal content of the hands and if they have any rust etc also.

Regards,
Larry

Regards,
Larry

its easier than all of you think
all you need hot plate very clean hands buffed and polish no finger prints or any other residue on it
here is pic of what I do as you can see 3 different colors no problem with right temp. and you have purple hands.
Also there is a topic here on how to make hot plate
with chart of temp and the colors you get just search.
How you think my damascus dials get the colors from.

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...043908287#3043908287

So Peter, you can do really nice purple hands? If you can you can make a lot of money for sure, as there are a LOT of Illinois people out there that would love it, me included.

Regards,
Larry

the labor that is involve in making them will be cost prohibit to do for profit so thanks but no thanks,I have other projects that are more lucrative

and less time consuming as we all know time is money.
I do not have any Bunns and not plan to collect any time soon so what will one pay for good pair of plume/purple hands?

That's what I say, and why I send mine out to have them blued. I have better things to do with my time.

I have paid as high as $75.00 for a really nice set of purple hands. But I would pay $35.00 to send mine and have them purpled. I will not put a watch on unless the hands are near perfect

Regards,
Larry

Thanks to all who answered, now I see why nice plum Illinois hands are so expensive when you can find them.

Heat blueing is an acceptable alternative to making up a tank and using blueing salts, particularly for small batches or one-off production, but I doubt that is what was done at the factories. It would have been more cost-effective (and create fewer problems with quality control) for factories to use a chemical blueing method, with tanks dedicated to their particular desired color. In a factory setting, that would have the added benefit of not having to raise the temperature of the item to the extent that I would change the temper.

All I know is that if I could purple hands I would stop what I'm doing and just do THAT.

I have yet to find anyone who can do it. I hear people SAY they can, but never have really seen any that were DONE!

Regards,
Larry

ok Im up for the challenge give me few days and perhaps purple hands will be made.
will post pictures of donor hands and perhaps done purple hands.
And if I made some purple hands please I will not be taking orders !

picture of the volunteer I found in my hands box

Peter, wouldn't you want to do at least a set to be sure that you have the same color to match?

Regards,
Larry

There is a gunsmiths product made by Birchwood Casey
called plum brown. Maybe it is too brown and not plum enough but as long as you are experimenting it might be worth a try. Also I would advise that you polish the hands and they must be lint and oil free Once polished do not touch them with bare hands.

Mike if you look up I explain that the hands need to be polish and oil free

Larry Im just doing one hand to prove that can be done in home//garage/work shop area and if I get one done with right temperature and time correct all hands should have same color.

I understand, but from a VERY experienced bluer, that is not the case. If you have hands that you have to sand/polish a little more than others you will have different results, and even on one hand that may have damage, like a little dent etc, you may even have to move the hand around a little just to get even color on that one hand. I guess if your going to do it just for yourself it would be OK, but to make a lot of them for others, it just isn't worth it. Like you have said earlier.

From what I understand, there is a LOT less room for error trying to get the plumb ones correct, than to do the blue hands.

Regards,
Larry

ok tomorrow I will prep. minute hand to do the experiment
I need picture of purple hands please!

This is the best I can do.

Lawrence - those are pretty good, for trying to do them by heat blueing - probably about as good as anyone can do. As you point out, purple is a very difficult color to control, and the slightest variation in surface, thickness, and even a minor dent or ding will adversely affect getting a true even color. All those reasons are why I am reasonably certain that when they were done in a factory setting, they were done chemically, in a temperature-controlled tank of blueing solution (commonly called "salts").

I don't have a lot of experience working with blueing watch and clock parts, but in the ten years I worked for Mr. Devilbiss, I learned a great deal about blueing firearm parts. I think the most difficult job we ha was matching the blueing of a couple of replacement screws we made for a pair of fine English dueling pistols in the Smithsonian collection. I remember Mr. Devilbiss wasn't fully satisfied with the final color we achieved, and wrote an apologetic letter to accompany them when we returned them to the museum.

Thank you David, that is really interesting.

I didn't do these, I just bought them that way or took them off of a movement. The hour hand all the way to the right is one of a set that I bought. Those colors were consistent to just that set. But it DOES show the different colors that you can get even trying to make ONE set. To me it's not about if I can BLUE/PURPLE them, but can I do it well enough to have then consistent enough to put on my watches.

Guess that's why I'll let someone with years of practice/experience do it the right way.

Regards,
Larry

Incidentally, I have always wondered why in even very fine watches, the screw slots are not usually aligned. In most fine firearms, the manufacturer takes care to see that all screw slots are aligned and parallel when the screws are fully home. I know how much of a PITA it is to make that happen, especially when replacing screws with new ones, but it really does add to the esthetics. (Of course it does mean that screws of the same size even if original to the piece, have to be kept in order and replaced in their original holes - but one should always make a habit of doing that with wood screws anyway, and keeping track of machine screws is just as easy.)

Good point!

I do that with the balance cock screws, but I have to admit, that is all.

I refinished an old rifle on time and remember the person helping me told me that about the screws now that you mention it.

I have a customer in Alaska that collects them, and has mentioned that they look at everything!

Regards,
Larry