I picked up a Waltham Vanguard 1908 (early model with the nice dmk effect) that has a diamond endstone and wondered how common this is. It in a base metal case and someone did not know how to get the bezel off so they took a chisel or screw driver and drove it off, killing the case all for 125. It is missing one hand and probably needs a new dial but the movement is in pristine condition. This is my second 23j Vanguards and they are very nice grades.

Hi Claude,
As to how common I surely can not say with any authority, but I also have a 16s 23 J Vanguard with a W/I that has the diamond end stone. So simply by that I do not think to scarce.
Bill

Bill is right, a DES is a nice thing to have, but is by no means rare and it adds only marginally to the value.

You see the des some Elgin Veritas models and some without, same for the 18s 19j BWR, I wondered how common they were for the 23j Vanguard

Claude, the 19J Vanguards have them too.I think the diamond end stones were gone by the late teens.I remember looking at a mid-twenties 23J Vanguard that still had the nice Old English lettering and fancy damaskeening, but was marked 6 positions and had no DES's.Take care, Ted.

Hi Claude,
I have I think 4 Waltham 1892's with them, a Elgin Gr.367 F/T, and an old 1856 English John Forrest with it. I original thought that it was only the odd high end watch that had them, but am not so sure now. As much as I like my old John Forrest do not know how really high end that is.
Bill

I was just looking at my '08 model 21J 16S Crescent St., and noticed that it too has clear jewels on the balance ( but not with facets like the Vanguard), and all the upper jewels on the train bridge are clear too.Only the escape wheel cap jewel and pallet arbor are red, like ruby.Would all those clear jewels be sapphire?S.N. is 20083446.Anyone else have one like that?I've seen some sellers in their description of some Crescent St.'s say they have diamond end stones, but they weren't mentioned in the factory advertising.

Colorless stones that are faceted are usually diamonds, those that are not faceted usually are sapphires, but the only way to tell for sure is with a jeweler's gemstone tester. You can get a good one of those on eBay for around $200.

Ed, a catalogue in the South Bend Research forum makes reference to "olive hole balance jewels".

Do you know what that means?

South Bend Catalogue, 1911

EDIT: Answered in next post, thanks G.

Lorne

The holes are not cylindrical but widened at both ends (the hole wall has the shape of an olive).

Gerald

I have four Vanguards (two M08 16s and two M92 18s), and they all have diamond end stones.

I have a 23J Vanguard and a 21J Crescent Street, both RR grade. Both watches have diamond center jewels.

They must have felt that the diamond center jewel gave them a competitive advantage.

RBL

As Ed stated above:

all colorless cap stones with no facets and all colorless stones with holes are sapphires - as far as I know and otherwise i would like to have it proven.

Regards
Gerald