For those of us who own and enjoy pocket watches, how often should those watches be cleaned? I am not a person who has the skills to do this for myself. Thanks very much for the help with this inquiry.

Stinger

This is what I think. If you are not going to carry the watch and keep it put up for display only. Clean them, an do not apply any oil. Over the years the oil will brake down. The acid in the oils will eat at the metal. You can see this under a microscope. If you are going to wind them up an let them run, I would clean them every 5 years. This will get all the old oil out before it can do any damage and help them run better.

This is a timely topic ,I will be interested in hearing everyone's strategy . A few weeks ago I sent an Illinois out for a crystal,along with some others for service , I was not going to service this one ,but went ahead anyway ,the dust ring was in place on this one too ! For a cased and working watch it is the dirtiest I have seen . edit , most of my watches get cleaned & oiled , if they run really nice I don't ,unless I am going to carry them .

I have been told by several master watch makers that with the use of modern lubricants, you don't suffer the kind of break down you used to have with the old petroleum based lubes.

That said, the timeline I was told was for a carry watch, around 5 years between COA's was usually a good number, and for storage/show watches after a COA, you can wait for at least 10 years.

Of course, those are just guidelines, and your use/service time may vary.

Regards! Mark

As a retired Tribologist [Lubricant engineer] I can add some basic information about oils.

There are 3 types of natural base oils:
1 - Parafinnic - meaning it has wax suspended in the molecule -- WAX is a good lubricant as long as it is SOFT - but Wax will harden when exposed to light and heat and become brittle - that is HARD CARBON - and is the enemy of combustion engines.
2 - Naphthenic - meaning there is NO WAX but a naphthene binder to the molecule
3 - Asphaltic - heavy and dark - not usually refined for machine lubrication - but used for thick "bull gear" very adhesive to metal lubes - like construction and mining operations. Also used in some greases... but most greases are a light parafin base oil heated and then a thickener is added (like lithium soap, or calcium soap, and occasionally sodium or barium. The "breaking down" of oils is caused by contamination - because seldom is there any acidic ph in lubricants. The "BREAKDOWN" is actually molecular separation of the base oil and the additive package.
ADDITIVE PACKAGE refers to rust and oxidation inhibitors, anti-wear additives like sulfur, phosphorus, and refined lard oil [rendered animal fat] to add "slipperyness" mostly is machining for metal removal or shaping.
Then there are SYNTHETIC OILS - mostly PAO [Poly-alpha olefin} like Mobil 1 and STP, and other chemical combinations where HYDROCARBON is NOT A PART OF THE MOLECULE.
There is a very fine Shell product called SPINDLE OIL # 10 - which is a very thin and almost water-white oil that has nearly 20,000 hours of oxidation-life that several watchmakers I have known for 40years have used successfully. It does not break down or separate because there is nothing in it of a greater molecular weight (density) than the oil molecule. Usually comes in 55 gallon drums, but I used to drain the drum - filtered through a piece of panty-hose into a cup and then using an eye dropper transferred to a recycled Visine bottle, or similar and given it to watchmakers who also did favors for me.
Just a suggestion and NOT a recommendation. You could use a very light and clear [Read; PURE] hydraulic oil - they are refined to provide 1000's of hours of high-pressure service - which your watch will never require - and they are easy to get. HOPE THIS sheds a little light to dispell some of the old myths.

Fabulous information !!

What would you say about the synthetic lubes used today in the watch industry. They would become contaminated over time by particles in the air such as dust etc. Would you think that 5 years for a working mechanical watch between synthetic oil changes or ?

regards,
bb

Buster- The primary difference between petroleum oils and synthetic oils is one of chemical activity between the lubricant and the oxygen AND nitrogen in the atmosphere. Contamination by exposure to lint, dirt, liquids, and the dreaded plastic crystal degrading and attracting moisture -- which first affects the hands, and subsequently the movement because corrosion grows with moisture. The watch exposed to air Oxygen and Nitrogen is far less chemically active with SYNTHETIC OILS because they have NO CARBON ! So the SYNTHETIC OILS will not only have a longer service life - - but they are pretty much INERT as to oxidation. With watches being closed most of their lives, it only stands to reason that OTHER EXPOSURES ARE MORE HARMFUL TO THE MECHANISM.
I would say the synthetic oil in a watch would be effective for at least 7 to 10 years, because the synthetic oil does not WAX UP... because it has NO WAX. The other elements are the problem.
Any watch I have will be COA serviced with synthetic oil just because IT IS WORTH IT - whether is is carried or resting peacefully....in 5 years - the synthetic oil is merely one factor. The contamination for some minute particle of moisture from breathing, heavily while admiring or lusting after the watch is the culprit.....
Besides.... ALL my watches say: "I'M WORTH IT"

Thank You Clark !!

There you have it folks and worth the price of admission to our club where we share many things with you, especially in our "Member's Only Forums" !!

regards,
bb

I knew that!!!

Thank you Clark!

Regards,
Larry

My 1st Post.. HOWDY!

How would you market a lubricant for the watch industry?

A 5 gallon pail of "whatever" would last all the watch industry an entire century..!

Please let me know and I'll give you half an ounce of special machine lube that will keep a pocket watch ticking for decades.
Problems arise when it is discovered that watch repair specialists would rather shoot you than put themselves out of business.. (think about it.)

Been there, done that. pc

Gary - Glad to have you here on 185 and my take on your question is similar, but more general. First, I don't think "marketing" would produce sales in the volumes that oil refiners/blenders consider profitable. It is surely a niche market. Some watchmakers in my area relied on S. LaRose or Jules Borel or maybe Ewing Bros. as their supplier since they bought parts etc. from them. My involvement with the Shell Spindle Oil 1o was as a gift of a 1 oz. bottle (we have sample bottles for taking specimen for analysis looking for wear metals and oxidation level - which would interest some watchmakers. I have seen more "MOEBIUS" oil than other brands, and they use a "whisker" and an oil cup to put it on a cleaned watch movement. I have never bought any, so don't know the cost - but my pitch was THIS IS A HIGHLY FORTIFIED AGAINST OXIDATION PRODUCT FROM SHELL ---AND IT IS FREE ! They always liked FREE and they had confidence that I knew about oil. I would stop in many shops in the 2 Carolinas, and part of Georgia, asking about dials, cases movements, parts or in some instances they had "cabinets of stuff they wanted to sell" CRYSTALS, Crowns, sleeves, stems, staffs and many other "assortments" from Swartchild, Bestfit, and other vendors. My repeated visits became a friendly chat with probably close to 100 jewelers/watchmakers and I was able to get some deals for my efforts to be friendly and show and tell with watches. The most fabulous event was in about 1999 - when I stopped in a watch repair shop in Elberton, Georgia - The Cut Granite capitol of the South, and I gave him my card and the free sample of oil for which we started a conversation about pocket watches. He said he had some that he had repaired years before and sent notices which were ignored and was thinking of selling them to recover his investment of time and materials - - and he invited me to come in the back room to se them. The first one he pulled off the hook on the inside of his huge safe door was a Hamilton 994 lever set and I was stunned... and asked "who would abandon such a watch?" We commiserated about why people do strange things and he said he could tell that I appreciated fine watches. He said he didn't know what it was worth, but if I was "seriously interested" to go ahead and make an offer. So i looked it over very intently and I carried a 5X magnifier and it was running and in a Model 10 case and I offered him $400.00 CASH. He said: "It's yours now!" Of course I had to bite my lit to keep from the cheshire cat grin and paid him. We chatted about what was my favorite and other small talk, and he asked when I would be over his way the next time - I said about 3 weeks and he said: "Next time I will show you something else you might like" I asked for a hint. He answered: "No hint today, but if you like high quality watches, he thought I would like it." So we parted company and I wondered what the surprise watch might be.... so when the time came for me to cross the lake to Elberton, Georgia, I made sure I had $500. or more with me. I stopped in his shop just before lunch and he asked if I had already had lunch - I said not yet...do you want to lock up and go now...I'll drive. He said, GREAT! So we went to local "meat and 3' place in Elberton and sat across from each other at a table and we had lunch - and when we finished TAKE A GANDER AT THIS!!! and pulled out a small leather pouch and poured out the watch on a pile of paper napkins and I picked it up to look. It was a 16 size hunter case and I opened the cover to discover ILLINOIS on the dial and I carefully closed the cover (the RIGHT way) and he smiled and I opened the back cover and cuvette to behold a 23 Jewel Bunn Special Hunter . . . ahem, ummm... wow.... super nice, I said! "So you appreciate it?' he said. YESSIR ! It is terrific ! So he said "If you can spare another $400.00 you can own it"
I sprained my wrist getting my wallet out, then started gulping air - - I had never seen one of these up close. So I am glad you like it, he said, I've had it for nearly 20 years, and wondered if I would live long enough to sell it...I just turned 82 last month, he told me. Of course I was staggered and said I don;t know how to thank you!
He said YOU PAID ME.... but if you still feel guilty, pick up the check for our lunch......I had that watch until I sold it to Harold laughter many years later. But I sure loved owning one and I believe I rubbed some of the "goody" off of it, but I sold it to Harold a few years ago and that money is "Gone - like those Hardee's fries" but I still remember him, although he passed away maybe 10-12 years ago.
WHAT ARE THE ODDS ??? A 994 and a 23 Bunn Hunter??????

No question Shell(R) has a lock on base additives. Visit the New Orleans area, the NW drive along the Mississippi will take you past the Shell parimins(sp) bottling operation. Typically the only way of doing business with this operation was by the truck load, they did not need "one off" customers. To further complicate things, getting a drum of their product was not easy (unless you had friends in high places.) The 2nd additive was also limited but not that much of an issue. The third (last) part of the formula came from a source that had only negative input to the intended purpose of their product. All in all, the entire program was less than pleasant in spite of having an excellent product and idea.
We had an excellent idea from start to the point the formula was sold after thirty plus successful years.
The largest percentages of sales was the auto, weapons, machine tool and HVAC industries. The textile industry just disappeared.
As for extending part life, no wants a better mouse trap in spite of the rhetoric. BTW, the cost of the base additive package tripled since the time we started. pc

Hi Clark , Great information on oil , do you think/know if shell has a better spindle oil ? It is made by other company's for the same use -high speed ,low friction. I can attest to some of Shells lubricants {like rotella } being superior , and wondered if this fell into that category .

Kevin - Shell Oil has had Rotella and Rotella T for many years as their premium diesel engine oil. But there are two competitors that also have an excellent product for diesel engine service - Mobil had Delvac 1300 and Chevron has Delo 400. All three of these are the top products for this application. As for high speed spindle oil, Shell has two -- Spindle 10 {ISO-10} and Spindle 22 {ISO-22} only difference is viscosity - additives are the same. Mobil has a pretty fine high speed spindle oil also - called Velocite 6 or Velocite 10...but my experience with these applications in industrial machinery was extremely sucessful with Shell Spindle 10 - because of the nearly water-white base oil {Almost ALL SULPHUR REFINED OUT} and the additive package providing extra long life with minimal oxidation of the oil, and the lubricity, which minimizes heat from friction. I know there are synthetics out there which do a great job in heat dissipation, but they lack a real good rust & oxidation additive and machinists don't like PARATAC {adhesion enhancer} because it inhibits optimum spindle speed.
Hope you DON'T use Rotella on watches - nuk...nuk..nuk The ONLY other products made outside Shell's manufacturing and blending plants in Metarie, LA, Wood River, IL, and Houston/Baytown are from ROYAL LUBRICANTS - which is Shell's synthetic division and produces many items for aircraft and military applications-ONLY.

When the prez says keep going...
I use this on 8 day clock springs.
Scrub with wd40, then wipe with synthetic.
Works so far, but these are all personal clocks,I do not profess to be a professional.
Mike

For clock pivots there is the added issue of the oil drying out over time. I would suppose a good hydraulic, but which one?

This week I have been working on a Rolex president, it was serviced by a jeweler in Dallas which failed shortly afterwards (I am not sure what arrangement was made thereafter).
He sent it to me for repair/inspection, the watch had not been serviced correctly incorrect oils used and in places no oil. Certain parts had worn away so badly they had to be replaced including a plate bill was over $1000. Synthetic watch oils may seem expensive to buy initially.
I also have a TAG in that will be ok once I get the brown goo out and service.