Hello ,
Thanks for having me in your group. I have a couple of antique pocketwatches I am trying to identify. The one in the picture here I have the original bill of sale from 1860 for 90 dollars. It has McCabe engraved on the back and it is 23 jewelled. I am not sure how many pictures I am allowed to post of it so I am just going to post the one until I know more.
Thanks

Here is another photo of the face of the watch

Another picture of the inside movement

This is the bill of sale to a Thos.P Lamphear

Hi Jason
I can't tell you anything about your watch other than there is a very good chance your watch case may be gold. The 90 that was spent in 1860 was probably in British Pounds based on the location of the business on the receipt. But 90 pounds was a large amount of money back them.

If it would be possible to post some close up photos of the movement and any hallmarks on the case perhaps more can be determined.

It looks like a very fine watch.

With all the wheels Pivot and cap Jeweled there is no doubt about it having 23 jewels! It must be a solid gold case.

This watch deserves careful research before it is put back in the safe deposit box!
I am amazed at the simplicity of the receipt description for such an expensive . . . "Gold Lever watch".

I was mistaken about the receipt being in pounds, from the address & watch I was assuming the UK but after searching I see that the business was located on Westminster Street Providence Rhode Island. Still odds are solid gold perhaps 18K.

Also I think the spelling of the person who bought the watch is Thomas P. Lanphear, a "n" instead of a "m".

He was born about 1806 and lived in Warick & Providence RI. In the 1860 census he is listed as a machinist. He was partners in a foundry called Levalley, Lanphear & Co.. It later became the Lanphear Machine Company.

The number 3450 on the watch case is the same number that is on the inside of the watch as well as on the front of the case(if that makes sense) the engrament says Mcabe London 23 jewels and I am sure it is 18k as I had a local jeweler look at it but he had not heard of james mccabe before so I thought I would speak with people who knew more on the topic

There is a closer shot of the movement

In 1860 American Watch makers where not even close with having 23 jewels in the watches. This is an extremely great watch.

The owner wanted the best and it looks as though he bought it.

Back in that time how many days- years would that have taken a average worker to come up with.

Eugene,
I was thinking the same thing.. Around the 1860's, we (American watch makers) were still very low in our jewel counts.. It's cool to see a watch that is that old with that many jewels (in a gold case to boot)..

According to this inflation calculator, $90.00 in 1860 worth be worth about $2,500.00 in today's dollars.

http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php

JAMES McCABE Watch maker. http://www.lurganancestry.com/mccabe.htm

This could be the maker of this watch.

Nice watch!!!

Steve

I had thought the same thing except James died in 1811, maybe they continued to use his name. I also found where there were fakes made using his name.

Now that I look closer, you're right, Tom.
I did see on another site that a son or son-in-law
took over the business. Can't find that site now though. Oh well.... Fun to hunt anyway.

Steve

Pounds in the 1860's were far more valuable then dollars. 90 pounds in 1860 is about $11,000 today.

http://www.antique-watch.com/ref/jmc-coll.html

Pieces of time James Mcabe article if very interesting to read. I think this might be the site you are speaking about Steven

i ALSO FOUND THIS ARTICLE OF jAMES MCABLE MAKING THREE WATCHES FOR GEORGE WASHINGTON

http://books.google.com/books?...20WASHINGTON&f=false

This may not be of much help but Mcabe was a well known English maker and if the owner was a machinist it stands to reason he would want best quality. In 1860 the best machinists and pattern makers were found in that general area of the New England states. One of the reasons the North won the Civil war. Beautiful watch!

Would there be anywhere on the watch in particular that it may have been signed that I have over looked?

The movement in Jason's watch clearly is Swiss. The Swiss made countless thousands or millions of these bar movements, almost all unsigned. Jason's may be higher jeweled or more highly finished than most, but it isn't unusual in any other way that I can see.

The Swiss had no compunction in those days of selling "Swiss Fakes." These included ersatz U.S. watch look alikes, but also misbranded English watches. One often sees Swiss watches bearing the famous "Tobias" brand. I think Jason's watch is an example of this misbranding, using the famous "McCabe" name. (James McCabe was a top English watchmaker.) It is possible that the real Tobias or real James McCabe might have imported Swiss movements and sold them under their own names, but I am skeptical that Jason's watch ever had anything to do with the real James McCabe.

To this point it seems that we have established;
1. There WAS a James M Cabe (Jr.) in the watch business who would be in his sixties in the mid-1800's when this watch was (evidently) made.
2. This watch began life (unmistakably) as a Swiss "ebauche Bar Movement".
3. AFTER receiving the movement someone completed the watch with a set of Gold wheels, 8 pairs of Capped Jeweled Pivots, adding 16 Jewels to the original 7 Jewel movement and completing the watch as a 23 Jewel Masterpiece.
4. The completed masterpiece has been cased in a matching serial number 18K SOLID GOLD case signed "M Cabe".
5. To establish the facts of this movement, I would urgently suggest sending a GOOD set of pictures to;
Pieces of Time
1 - 7 Davies Mews - - London W1Y 2LP
Telephone + 44 (0) 207 629 2422
Fax + 44 (0) 207 409 1625
E-mail - info@antique-watch.com

. . . as these people seem to know a whole lot about M Cabe's work. They also have many of his watches listed for sale including some certified "Fake" ones.

Ok I have sent off the email with some pretty clear pictures and the stats as you listed. Hint when taking pictures of a gold watch: make sure you are not wearing your underwear and standing in the reflection . hopefully we will hear something back from them soon. the suspense is killing me

maybe i should rephrase that :the response is killing me. Johnny from Pieces of Times is a man of few words:
sorry but its a fake made in Switzerland
Regards Johnny.
Wait I just reread your post again , they sell "fake" ones on thier website?

I also said it was a fake James McCabe, but that doesn't mean it is a fake watch. Some posters here regard it highly.

Yes Ethan You are correct. McCabe or not it still is a fantastic piece. It even makes it more of a mystery.I wonder if the original buyer thought it was a McCabe or of it was even altered by him after he bought it. I also wonder if it brings down the value of the watch.

If inspection of the watch shows the cap jewelled wheel pivots are conical, the quality of the movement is much increased. It would be very interesting to find where it came from.
There could be a "hint" under the dial on the top of the dial plate.

i would be a bit nervous to play with the dial as I haven't ever taken off a dial plate . when i wind the watch it begins to work immediately , would the key give any indication to the shape of the pivots??

In that gold case, it matters little if it runs well, just keep it as a treasure. One thing we learn the hard way (sometimes) is the more you fiddle with these pieces of antiquity the more you can (will) mess them up.

This has nothing to do with the watch itself, just thought I would post there was a 2nd Thomas Lanphear in Providence RI, except he died during the civil war.

This is from U.S., Adjutant General Military Records