I just got in a 18s Hampden Gladiator. The hairspring is a flat hairspring and was very dirty and oily and the coils were sticking together. I demagnetized it and cleaned it so the hairspring is fine. It is an unadjusted movement and it has 5 balance weights on each side with no meantime screws. I got it in a few days ago so I have no knowledge on what has been done to it. I did notice some guy put a metal pin where the roller jewel is suppose to be. The only thing I can think of is maybe someone mixed some slow train wheels and some fact train wheels together or maybe mismatched the hor wheel and minute wheel??? I have not taken it apart yet but I am trying to get a game plan on what to look for before I tear into it. I don't think I could add enough balance weights to make up 4 hours. What say y'all.

Thanks,
Harry

Check the hour wheel? If you put the watch on a timing machine and it shows running good then it would be in the train wheel.

Hey Harry,

I think #1 would be to clean and oil it, and make sure the mainspring is good. Normal checks during that process. Your just going to be chasing your tail unless it's clean and lubricated.

Anyways, if you want to make sure it's not the motion works, what's the BPH showing? If the bph is normal and hands are showing +4 hours I would think it's the cannon pinion, hour or minute wheel (or combination)

Hi Billy and Rick,

I have an Ace Timer 1000 and it will not pick up the watch as it is too far off. It does not tick tock it sounds more like a galloping horse. The BPH is fulchuating between 19800 anf 21600 (?) not sure about the last number as it is mostly 19800. I know both numbers are wrong it should be 18000. The dots on the screen are all over the place no pattern at all. I timed the second hand and with it shows going one complete circle of 60 seconds my digital stopwatch shows 53.5 seconds so the second hand is rotating too fast. I think some 2 year old worked on this watch. As for taking it apart and cleaning it yes I agree that needs to be done but I want to know what to look for taking it apart, once apart and putting it back together. After all I am sure all the parts will look correct but I would like to know which parts I should look at. The escapement, third wheel, forth wheel esc... I can clean a watch fine but trying to recognise maybe a swapped part is not my area of expertise.
Thanks,
Harry

You probably find Harry that it is the wrong hairspring (strength wise) and/or balance (incorrect weight or had the weights/screws modified). Someone has been playing with it (balance assembly that is) in the past that knew absolutely nothing about watches.

Hello Mate!

The balance is the correct balance as the numbers match but they could have put another hairspring on it.It was covered in oil making the coils stick together. If they did put another hairspring on it I don't know what hairspring they put on it. Now that you mention it they put a metal pin in it for the roller jewel so like you say someone has been messing with the balance. I will clean it and start adding weights and hope I have enough holes to add all the weight it will need.

Thanks Mate!
Harry

Before making any changes to the balance I would first install a correct roller jewel. Next, clean and oil the balance jewels. Then with the balance on the plates by itself an easy check can be made of the balance/hairspring combination:

18,000 beats per hour, 9,000 each direction.
300 beats per minute, 150 each direction.
150/2 = 75 beats each direction for 30 seconds.

Set the balance in motion with a twist of the wrist and with a cell phone or other timer start counting for 30 seconds and see how many beats you have. If close to 75 the balance should be ok. If way less than 75 the watch would run slow and way more it would run fast. It takes a little practice to count, but not all that difficult and you will easily determine if the problem is in the balance or elsewhere.

Roger

Thank you Roger,

First I need to see if I can count to 75 . Like you say it will take some practice but should not be too difficult. Thank you!

Harry

You're welcome Harry. Of course there are other steps to take which I didn't mention such as a close examination of the balance pivots, jewels, end shake and side shake. When setting the balance in motion by itself on the plates it should oscillate for at least a full minute dial up and dial down and should stop smoothly. Holding in various angles should show up any tendency for binding. I always check balance motion by itself when servicing since it is the "heartbeat" of the movement. Best results invariably start with a balance in great shape.
Roger

Great advice Roger. Thank you!

Harry

Thank you Lindell! I have taken the watch apart and it is a basket case. The roller jewel has been replaced with a metal screw, The pallet fork arbor has been heated to a deep blue color, the center wheel shaft has been heated to a deep blue color, the hairspring was so dirty the coils were sticking together, one of the plate screws was broken off, and who knows what else I will find.

Harry

Hi Harry
Sound to me like it "knocking" mainspring far to strong one of many things it could be and amplitude so high it bouncing of back of pallet, the racing sound is typical of this. can also be so out of beat
from what you say expect to find a long list of problems. was it sold "just serviced' !!

Hi Chris,

No this is one of the few that has not been recently serviced...In fact I know he knew it was running way too fast because he sold it as not running as it would run a little and stop. It has never stopped with me so I think that he thinks his description would absolve him of any misrepresentation of the watch.

I never thought of the mainspring. I am having to change everything out so I might as well put a new mainspring in it also. Yes The backing pins are all the way out and the pallet fork is slamming into both so I think you brought up a very good lead. I know when I cleaned the center wheel the small gear that screws onto the shaft of the center wheel fell off. Just one of the many things that was wrong with this watch. If this were a car you could describe it as follows; "Keep the radiator cap and replace everything else".

Thank Chris I am very sure you are on to something,
Harry

dont wind it fully just give it a few turns and see how it runs, then full wind and I sure you will hear the racing sound again, good luck.

Thanks Chris!

Harry