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Is This Solid Gold???? - Marked Monarch Case "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Member 1101
Site Moderator
Picture of Steve Middlesworth
posted
I came across this marking in one of my watches today and after researching it on this site I am assuming it is solid White gold. Does that still hold true if it is marked Monarch?

Steve

 
Posts: 1974 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: March 18, 2008
IHC Member 1101
Site Moderator
Picture of Steve Middlesworth
posted
Here is the watch.....

 
Posts: 1974 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: March 18, 2008
IHC Vice President
Pitfalls Moderator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
posted
Steve,

I'm no expert on this, but in my experience, any kind of brand name on a case refers to a type or grade of gold-filled case.

That said, I never heard of Brooklynn Watch Case Company making anything other than solid gold cases . . . Confused


Best Regards,

Ed
 
Posts: 6705 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
IHC Member 1335
Picture of Tom Brunton
posted
The "FAT BOOK" shows that dog bone shaped BWC Co. trademark as being solid gold ,nice Wink
 
Posts: 1754 | Location: Aylmer, Ontario in Canada | Registered: December 15, 2009
IHC Member 1101
Site Moderator
Picture of Steve Middlesworth
posted
It just struck me as really odd as that is the only markings in the case other than a serial number. I have had this watch for awhile now, about 3 years to be exact and never new that it was a solid gold case, the first one I have ever owned. I must say the seller didn't know it either as I paid no where near gold case price for it.

Steve
 
Posts: 1974 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: March 18, 2008
IHC Life Member

Picture of Jerry King
posted
Steve, your watch case is in fact solid gold, probably 10 or 8 karat....

The Brooklyn Watch Case Co. did in fact make two cases that were not solid gold....

1. Windsor was an 8 karat case and advertized as the cheapest gold filled case made.....

Then there was one of the finest gold filled cases made....

2. The Granger #2, #2 because it was made from double gold stock....

As far as I know those were the only two cases the B.W.C.Co. made that wasn't solid gold....

Nice find....

Regards,


Jerry
 
Posts: 2844 | Location: Chino, California in the USA | Registered: June 23, 2008
IHC Member 992
posted
Most likely not gold. Geno
 
Posts: 357 | Location: Foster City, California USA | Registered: August 06, 2007
IHC Member 1101
Site Moderator
Picture of Steve Middlesworth
posted
Gene,

What is your opinion on this matter if I might ask?

Steve
 
Posts: 1974 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: March 18, 2008
IHC Member 1335
Picture of Tom Brunton
posted
As I said earlier, the trademark according to the Fat Book, is only on solid gold cases, and does not show for filled. Of course the Fat Book could be wrong. Roll Eyes

 
Posts: 1754 | Location: Aylmer, Ontario in Canada | Registered: December 15, 2009
IHC Member 992
posted
Hi screw back and bezel, probably plated or nickle case, to be sure have it tested. Geno
 
Posts: 357 | Location: Foster City, California USA | Registered: August 06, 2007
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

The easy answer to Steve's question is NO, THAT IS NOT a Solid-Gold case.

The majority of "Brooklyn Watch Case Company" cases are solid-gold, but the "dog-bone" trade-mark should be accompanied by a form of "14-K" or better yet the "Warranted to U.S. Assay" marking to be definitive.

When you see "Monarch" then it is ALWAYS a Gold-Filled case, there is no if, no but, no maybe, period.

Case companies were absorbed, one into another, the "Monarch" trade marked name originated with Fahys as a Gold-Filled Case and that continued over the years through a succession of owners. The name "Monarch" was a well-known trade mark and it was used only on Gold-Filled cases. In the jewelry trade all the various model names were well known, nobody was fooled there, but among the public it was and is even today a whole different story. The problems were so great that by the early 1920s the government stepped in and did away with all the time-statements, requiring gold content to be specifically stated on all jewelry items which of course included watch cases. They could keep their names but content had to be clearly stated. Steve's case would have been made before the stated content law took effect.

Questions about "Monarch" and other names have been raised in our forums numerous times over the years. If you do an IHC185 Find-Or-Search for "Monarch Case" the information found there may help in this discussion. It is important to remember that if you find "Monarch" along "14K" it means "14K Gold Filled" and if you see "Monarch" or practically any other name from a very long list of "Gold-Filled" model names alone with the manufacturers name it will almost invariably turn out to be a Gold-Filled case. The only exception I can think of is "Brooklyn Eagle" which is an 8K Solid-Gold case.

Most of the "tests" for gold are not at all foolproof, almost invariably those "tests" are intrusive, the acid remains and burns the case often permanently damaging the movement.

Checking page 59 of the Ehrhardt Trade Mark Book reveals a direct reference to "Monarch" and a number of other "Gold-Filled" model names, one must also consider the advertisement below this posting.

Hope this helps,

Lindell

Wink


Monarch 14K Gold-Filled Case Advertisement...


 
Posts: 10545 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Vice President
Pitfalls Moderator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
posted
Some words of wisdom about searching. When a horological question pops into your head, don't rush to post it before you search the IHC185 archives. It is very unlikely you are asking a question that hasn't been asked before in some form.


Best Regards,

Ed
 
Posts: 6705 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
IHC Member 1101
Site Moderator
Picture of Steve Middlesworth
posted
Well, somewhat disappointing information but on the other hand never thought of it being anything other gold filled before so why not now as well. It just all started when I was searching to find out what B.W.C. Co. stood for and my initial findings were that it may be a solid gold case. We all learned something here.

It's still a nice watch and it's still worth what I paid for it. It houses a 17 jewel Bunn from about 1914 or so which would explain Lindell's comments about no gold markings until into the 1920's. Thanks Lindell for all the information you brought out onto the table to clear this mystery up.

Steve
 
Posts: 1974 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: March 18, 2008
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