First off let me say I really like this site and have read and learned a lot. Pocket watches have always fascinated me, and I have recently bought a few off of ebay. I just like the way some watches look.
I really like Elgin, probably because I got one from my grandfather (its in a jewelery box and only comes out for special occasions).
Since I don't have a lot of money to spend I have had to really focus on the lower priced items. I knew that eventually I would run into an issue, and after buying 5 watches I have finally ran into one.
I bought a 16s sidewinder serial 17639658. Its in a gold filled star case. I should have known I was running into trouble by the dark pictures in the auction.But when I got it, it didn't wind. I took the back off and there were mo case screws to hold the movement. The stem of the watch seems to fit badly. Its a square post. When I loosen the crown I can wind it a little, but the crown tightens and then it just moves the hands.
I have a good feeling this watch case isn't right for the movement. I am just curious if I could replace the case, and if so do sidewinders need some special case? Because I paid a super cheep price for this watch, and if I could get a parts watch with a case I think it would be fun to have a movement left over to play with. But since I know absolutely nothing, I figured it cant hurt to ask questions.

Thanks in advance.

Welcome to the IHC185 website Jim. We could give you more useful answers if you could post pictures of your watch, or at least give us a more detailed description, like the brand of the watch, size, serial number, etc.

For one thing a sidewider is a hunter movement that has been recased in an open-face case so you know the case is not original to your movement. To make it more like what it was originally, you would need a hunter case.

You have to decide whether you want to restore it or just make a parts watch out of it. For low-priced items, its almost always better to just buy a nicer example to begin with, rather than trying to restore an example that needs a lot of new parts. Parts for century-old watches are very hard to find. In the long run you will have a lot less aggravation and pay a lot less too.

Hi Jim,
Welcome to IHC 185!!

Your question has many avenues we would be glad to try and help you with. There are many helpful people here and a wealth of information to be gleaned with repair topics etc. Membership dues are $12 a year and give you access to all the topics. We look forward to you joining our ranks!

As to your watch it will be very difficult to determine the cause of the problems. Pictures of the movement, case and stem, crown areas would be helpful.

Your watch is a hunter case movement evidently in an open face case. It is a 15Jewel model#6, Pendant set, grade 312, 16sz, 3/4 plate nickle movement made in 1913.

Try and post some pictures and we will try and troubleshoot more for you.

regards,
bb

Sorry I wasnt clear, Its an Elgin. Of the 6 watches I have 5 are Elgin and ones a Waltham. Here are the pictures. But what I am thinking is that the square post is to short, because when I get the crown tight on the shaft it doesnt pull out any more.

The watch that you are showing appears to be a stem set watch. I see no lever that you pull out.
Which means that the watch will have to be tight in the case to wind set correctly. If you shake the watch back and forth as you look at the back off the movement the Balance wheel should swing back and forth. If it does not then It will probably not run even after you get the movement secure in the watch. After you get the movement secure in the watch if it does. With the stem in the down position. Closes to the dial or hands. It should wind or put tension on the mainspring.
A-If it is wound tight then it has a mechanical problem. Needs cleaned and oiled. Some times called serviced. Should be done with someone that is qualified.
B- The watch winds and never gets tight. Would be diagnosed as a bad mainspring.
C- The watch winds tight then when you shake it [ Balance does not spin back and forth} Could mean Needs serviced, Balance is broken. Or many other things.
Any time I buy a watch. I first check that Balance has motion. Then if the mainspring is good. Tighten when wound. Then if balance will swing by itself. If balance has good motion. If it does not have good motion it will need serviced. Then if hands set correctly.

Watches where cutting edge technology when they where being developed. And why they Fascinate me today.

I hope this was helpful and not to much info. My 87 year old mentor told me For him to help me. I have to help anyone that asks.
Gene Buffard

quote:

because when I get the crown tight on the shaft it doesnt pull out any more.

Jim it sounds like the stem and sleeve needs an adjustment to be able to "pop" in our out from the winding to the setting position. This requires a sleeve wrench once the crown is removed from the stem. When you remove the crown, take a picture looking down into the stem cavity so we can try and tell if there is in fact a sleeve, which will be required on/in the case for a pendant set operation.

regards,
bb

Thanks for that bit of info Eugene. As I can see, the watch fits the case. I have attached a picture of the movement in the case. The balance moves, I can even wind it a little and see the balance move and the watch tick. But I think the stem is the issue.
Let me also give some background info on myself. Before I blew out 3 disks in my back I rebilt/repaired copiers and printers for a living. I am not afraid of mechanical gear driven things. If I had a set of good screwdrivers small enough I think it would be real fun to try and disassemble a watch, with taking my time and a place to ask questions .
But getting back to the watch, is it possible that this watch has been set in a lever set case? Is there such a thing?

Hi Buster,
Here is a picture of the stem cavity with the crown removed.

Welcome to IHC185 Jim. I would be happy to look at your watch and repair it for you at no charge except shipping.

quote:

Here is a picture of the stem cavity with the crown removed.

Jim there is in fact a sleeve in the pendant and it is set up for a pendant set movement. The four divits set 90 degrees apart are for the prongs of a sleeve wrench to adjust the sleeve up/down to be able to make the pendant set case work for individual movements. Sometimes you can fit a small blade into one of the divits and screw the sleeve up/down to get it to the right position for your movement. This is a trial and error procedure for the particular movement. First get the stem in the case where it does "click" up/down. Try half a turn [180 degrees]until you get it right. Once right put the movement back in the case and try the winding/setting again. It may require a little more sleeve adjustment to get it correct. Just keep trying the procedure and perhaps you can get it to function correctly.

regards,
bb

Jim,
It sounds like these fellas can repair your watch (at no charge yet thanks to Roger Nolfe!), but it sounds like you have learned a lesson re Ebay
I wanted to suggest just returning the watch, but I reckon that's not possible now. You should consider joining this organization and making use of our member auctions where your satisfaction is assured.
Mike

Thanks Buster, I have managed to get the sleeve to move and I am going to see if I can get it to work before taking Roger up on his very kind offer.

Hi Mike, if I wasnt on a fixed income and in school at the same time I would gladly pay the membership fee now. I plan on fully joining at some point, but money is real tight right now.
Yes I have learned a few lessons about ebay. One of them is be careful and what looks to good to be true most of the time is neither good nor true. But for $30, you are not going to get perfection, and the fun of fixing the issue is a bonus if it can be fixed .

To close this out I want to report that I have fixed the watch stem. At least to the point I can, and I am happy with. Thank you very much Buster and everyone who offered advice and helped me.
What I ended up doing is this. I took the sleeve all the way out of the watch, and noticed that it was possible to over tighten the crown down on the shaft to the point it didn't pop up any more. I think this was the real problem.
I needed to make it so the crown only screwed down so far onto the shaft. I had a small strip of aluminum left over from the packaging of a shirt sitting on my bookshelf. I cut a real small piece off of it and fit it into the crown so that the shaft now only went in so far and would not over tighten.
I played with the sleeve a little to find the correct depth, and checked that the watch wound easily. As I am writing this it is ticking away.