I have a waltham looks to be Railroad quality bit not approved. any other info would be helpful. Grade etc. It is a 17 Jewel Adjusted 5 Position, Lever set that is also marked A.W.W. Co on the movement. A 16sz Waltham. Some info on this watch would be greatly appreciated. Quantity and grade. Serial # 22058522

Eugene,
Database says:
Grade: No. 642
Movement Serial Number:22058522
Estimated Production Year: 1918
Run Quantity: 1000
Size: 16s
Jewels: 17j
Movement Configuration: Openface
Movement Finish: Unknown
Model: 1908
Movement Setting: Pendant
Plate: 3/4 Plate
Adjusted: Yes
Adjusted to Positions: Unknown
Railroad Grade: No

Doesn't quite match does it?

How about a photo?

Steve

I looked up the same Data base. It is obviously incorrect mine is lever not pendant. Hummm interesting.

#22058361 Lever PJW
#22058522 Lever ERB
#22058788 Lever MW

Eugene,

I also have a grade 642. As far as I can tell they were only made in 1918.

Model Grade Jewels Style Earliest Latest First Last Runs Count
1908 No 642 17 OF 22058001 22099000 2 3000

Runs Report

First Last Count Model Grade Jewels Size Plate Finish Set Style
22058001 22059000 1000 1908 No 642 17 16 3/4 PS OF
22097001 22099000 2000 1908 No 642 17 16 3/4 LS OF

I have pasted the details from the Waltham database. I am doing this from an I-phone it didn't paste well, but it shows just 2 runs.

The opinion now is that all 3000 watches were lever set. The serial number of the 642 that I have, like yours, falls in the range of the pendant set but is also a lever set, lending credence to that opinion.

I would be interested in knowing if anyone else on this site has one and what the serial number is.

I have not seen many examples of this grade. Yours, mine and I think David Abbe may have posted a pic of one a while back. Yours is a very nice example of what appears to me to be a hard to find grade. Of course I have not been collecting very long and other members here may have seen many.

Best Regards,

Mike

The Pocketwatchdatabase also lists the 21j and 19j 645 adj to 5 pos and lever set as Railroad Grade:Unknown. So I don't pay much attention to it. Most of us know what the standards for an approved watch was, even if they don't.

B.R.

Mike

Mike, Your grade 642 was rare and reportedly (Ehrhardt)made in a few Pendant and even fewer lever set versions.

Either were still RR certifiable with some railroads in 1918. The rarity alone makes them highly desirable collectibles for a Waltham Fancier.

Yours deserves mention for its rarity and honesty. The checkerboard finish relates to the 645 and Riverside fit and finish quality.

Michael thank you for Info. When I spotted this watch I said to myself now that is something you don't see unless it is a high grade watch. Adjusted 5 position.


I guess since only 3000 made. I'll tear it down and give it a good cleaning and make it pretty again.

Eugene

Serial # 22058788 is also reported as lever set

Gerald

Gene, those 642's are kind of a 17J version of the 645,they are a nice looking and hard to find Waltham RR.They seem to be pretty scarce, and there aren't any advertizements that I could find on them,either.I've been watching them for a long time too, and you almost never see them for sale.I wonder if they were built for the Canadian Railroad market, being that Waltham had a big 17J RR watch following up there.What dial does yours have on it?Thanks, Ted.

another: 22058361 ,lever set

Here is a photo of the dial.

My Dial is the same as Dave Abbe's.

Here is a link to LINK.

The case sure needs a little attention.

The serial # 22058788 Gerald refers to from pocketwatchdatabase.com is the watch in my collection. I have entered it and the 2 19j 645's I have in the hopes that they will update/correct the information in their Waltham database.

I am still very curious as to who owns and operates the site.

The dial on my 642 is the same as Dave's and Eugene's (blind mans dial??) with only a flea bite at the 34. It is housed in a Fahys Montauk 20 year case that has no brassing. The bow is stiff but bent and is brassed. I have COA'd the movement and it runs like a top.

Dial

Movement

Side note: The back of the case to this watch has been prof. inscribed with the initials JBL. The inside is again prof. inscribed in script with "J. Bert Lair", "Los Angeles Ca". and a "wavey" American flag. It also has almost a dozen jeweler marks. Seems Mr. Lair kept his watch in good shape. The only thing I was able to find on him was a Military Service card from WWI in 1917-1918. If anyone can find anything else on Mr. Lair I would be interested in knowing.

Best Regards,

Mike

Nice watch Mike!That dial they called the "Engineer" dial and was used on all Waltham RR grades.My 21J Crescent St. and 19J Riverside have that same dial.Tom Brown on here is a great detective on finding info on people, maybe he can find out about the owner....Ted.

Ted,

Thank you, and thanks for the info on the dial. Besides the 642 I also have this dial on my 21j and 19j 645s. My second 19j 645 has a different dial but I think it is also correct.

B.R.

Mike

Eugene, you posted "#22058361 Lever ERB" early in thread
I posted this # later in thread not realizing it was mentioned, I bought this watch a few years ago in Colorado, maybe from you ?
Just curious about: "ERB"

Eugene, Think I got it, that was you and those are your initials ? Anyways it has a good home.

Found notes,22058631 here 9+ years,was not from Eugene,

I put ERB on your watch by mistake. I'll change it Thank You.

Eugene, I was curious about its life journey, Respectfully and Thanks, Paul

I have a 642 in my collection. Bought it off ebay for $125 I believe. It's lever set.