A friend just showed my an antique Hampden pocketwatch. It looks like an 18s, Open face, key wind&set, SN 449031. The usual online sources throw up their hands and say "unknown" (I'm on the road and don't have any books handy). It's in a very solid (two) EDIT THREE-hinge silver case (now nearly black with tarnish. It belonged to his grandfather who lived from the 1880's to the 1970's.

And..it's missing a crown. He also doesn't have the key - but that's easy. The dial shows it's age, but only with bits of dirt - nothing detached or broken. Hands look original. My guess is that a COA, a new decorative crown, and perhaps a few minor repairs, and he can have it ticking again.

Any informaton?

His grandfather's other watch was a Gruen. Very thin, about 12s, "Made in Switzerland". Looks to be in excellent shape, but needs a COA.

Ken, That is a tough one. The Hernick & Arnold reference shows no info on this number. But all the other numbers in that series are 18 size. Closest number to it is 448,780 being a Hunter - gilt model 2 lever set 11J unadjusted grade 70.

To add to the information Ken, this is an Model 1 unadjusted movement, was cased either as hunter or open face configuration.

The total number of movements made was in the vicinity of 35,300 and 20,850 were made in the variation of the watch you ask about.

Cheers

Thanks very much - I'll pass it along. I expect he's going to have it restored. Personally, I doubt there's much to do other than a good cleaning. It's been in a drawer for a LONG time, taped up with a replacement crystal that doesn't seem to be a perfect fit. I think someone tried to replace the crystal, failed...and gave up on it. The only obvious damage is the lack of a crown - but how important is that on a key wind/set movement? How would you evaluate the difficulty of finding an "appropriate" crown to match the case? This is a case of strong emotional attachment and "money is no object". I also suspect that he'll soon grow tired of the key wind/set and the watch will be back in the drawer (now temporarily in good working order and very shiny).

Someone on this list may see it in their inbox realSoonNow, for repair. I have passed along a few names (send all finders fees to....)

Ken, The Hampden name comes from the Hampden county where Springfield Mass. is located. If you send me the name of the case I might have a crown from a parts case. It is a long shot but who knows?

I had another chance to view the watch today. The case is a Fahys Monarch #R5415 (same number on all three parts).

Three pictures: in this post, the dial showing the decapitated crown. The next two posts are bad views of the back. Let's just say that the movement looks clean to me.

My theory remains that the crystal was broken long, long ago. Someone tried to replace it, failed, and put it in a drawer. It was found (along with the replacement crystal) recently. I'm betting that it was running find when it was put in the drawer and will run just fine after a COA. The only hole in this theory is the missing crown. Perhaps the mishap that broke the crystal also ripped off the crown (and, of course, perhaps did some internal damage).

A replacement crown would be most welcome! Then, it will most likely go off for COA+repair. And, of course, acquisition of the correct key.

It's not mine - but I'm in close contact with the owner (grandson - perhaps great grandson - of the original owner - if it's really 1887 that's too early for the grandfather, but a perfect fit for the great grandfather).

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I'm a little puzzled at this, Kenneth, as keywind/keyset's didn't HAVE crowns. You wound them and set them with the key, so they didn't NEED one. It being an open face case, it also doesn't need a push button.

This case and top looks exactly like the one housing my keywind/keyset Elgin grade 58.

Here's another example: Elgin H. H. Taylor

Regards! Mark

Hmmm - makes perfect sense - except that I recall seeing a gaping hole where a decorative crown would attach. Perhaps I was hallucinating.

If so...huzzah! It's in better shape than I thought.

It's entirely possible that I formed the idea of a missing crown BEFORE I noticed that it was key wind/set.

Here's a vaguely similar case - note the "cap", which is missing on the watch I'm asking about. My recollection is that there is a HOLE (a big one) at the top of the ball.

alas, I'm now a 4-hour drive away from the watch - I have put in a request for better pictures.

Hmmm - Here is the first picture again...

Many times those 'caps' were hidden keys to wind and set the watch with.

Regard! Mark

More and more interesting...

Assume (oops?) that this case does have a hole where a crown and stem (or cap) should be. Is it possible that this MOVEMENT has the capability of being either wound or set (in addition to the clearly visible wind/set mechanisms?)

Or, is it likely that the case simply wasn't a perfect match to the movement...had an extraneous cap...which has been lost?

If it were mine, I would probably look for a replacement case. But, this is my friend's "grandfather's watch", and he may be as attached to the case as he is to the movement. If that's so - what are the options for repair?

If my memory is correct that there is a gaping hole at 12, it surely can't be a good idea to leave it unplugged, can it? Or, does it not matter?

If I get better pictures of the top of the hole, I'll post. Until then, I remain puzzled.

As this is an Open face case, there is little utility to the cap or "crown" except to plug the hole or for a "Hidden" key. I have seen these where a wood or bakelite plug was shoved into that hole just to keep the debris from "falling" into the movement. The Movement however usually has some sort of dust band too. In short, the movement looks very nice and deserves a full restoration along with a cleaning of the case. Then deal with the "crown" question.

Kenneth, Dave and Mark are both right, but when you said crown I assumed you meant the small metal cap. You could replace the case if you wished.

I think we have consensus! Since the present owner of the watch is skilled in working in metal, he may take the opportunity to do something "creative".
I'm fairly certain he has no desire to replace the case.

so...COA, install appropriate crystal, and hope there are no surprises inside.

And then...deal with the hole. He also has experience in shaping little bits of cork to close holes...I think I feel a plan coming on.

Moving on - Can anyone come up with an approximate date for the case? There was a date claimed above for the movement of 1887 - the question is whether it's at all possible for this to have been the original case.

repeating : movement Hampden SN 449031
case Fahys Monarch SN R5415

And finally, it seems clear enough - but are there opinions on the "correctness" of the dial and hands?

Ken, the way you got it is the way I would keep it. The hands are not matched, the Hour hand looks like it is the replacement and both of them look like 19th century manufacture.

It deserves a good restoration after waiting so very long to keep someone "on time" again!