Found this tag attached to an empty salesmans display case for sale. The serial number on the front of the tag is for 1923. Were 17 jewel watches still being approved for rail road use then?

Steve

Front of tag.....4213503

Steve;

The Illinois 16S 17J Bunn was a railroad approved watch as of date of manufacture.

The 1930 Standards generally only allowed 19J and
more into their group. Of course the 17J Bunn was out of production long before then (I believe 1924)

As was noted earlier here, if a trainman had say a 17J Bunn he was already using it would have been "grandfathered" in to allow. The 'ol Bunn had performed duty for years before the "new" standards came into effect, so was no benefit to retiring it simply because it was no longer on the list. Actually, consider owning one of these. One of my favorites, it will time with the best of them. Note the "sapphire and ruby jewels" on the tag...excellent railroads!

Railroad Approved Timepieces...1893 and 1930 Lists

Thanks for the link, Tom....It is very interesting and helps remove any doubt about a watch that one is wondering if 'railroad approved' or not....especially the earlier watches....

Regards,

Jerry

I always smile at those lists. There are those watches that were approved, those that were 'grade', and then there were those that were 'used' and don't show UP on these lists.

My great uncles John C. Dueber Special 17j was fully 'adjusted', marked so on the plates,had all the bells and whistles available in its day that it was built in 1890, and was used and carried while he worked as a telegrapher for the B&OSW in South Webster and Sciotoville, Ohio in the early 1900's.

Telegraphers weren't required to carry 'standard' watches, so there were a great many types of VERY good watches actually used by railroad men in positions that needed reliable timepieces that never appear on these lists.

I note that the John C. Dueber Special 21j 18s is listed, but NOT the 17j, so like I said, I take these lists as more of a guideline rather than a hard fast rule.

Regards! Mark

If you go back and look at Wikipedia or other sources and see how many class 1 railroads that existed in 1890-1930, then look at class 2 railroads there were quite a few that no records of their watch standards that exist or are still available so I agree with Mark. Here is a link to a value calculator, plug in the cost of a pocket watch from some ad, then plug in the year and then plug in the year 2008 or 2009 and I think you will be a bit surprised on the real costs the the railroaders at the time paid for a good watch. value calculator So I picked $42.50 for a Hamilton 990 in a case, I think in that year they sold for ~$37.00 but added $5.50 for a case, 1905 for the year, and 2009 for the final year. For any figure dealing with wage, either unskilled or production worker compensation the current value of that same Hamilton 990 would be either $4,640 to $7,120. For the average RR worker at the time that was not making a ton of money this is not quite a car payment in today's terms but it is a substantial investment to have a job. I tend to think there were a lot of 17j watches that were grandfathered in around the turn of the century and even into the 20's and 30's, if you change the the dates to 1950 and figure $100 for the same watch the impact is much less, ranging between $1450-$1650 so good 992's or BWR in the late 40's or early 50's did not hammer the wallet of the RR'er nearly as badly.
I looked at the Elgin site and in 1950 there is an ad from the Pugh Bros selling a BWR 571 in the typical gold case that 571's were sold in for $71.50 in 2009 value that watch would be $1040-$1250, just as a matter of reference.

I'd HATE to think what my John C. Duber Special cost in the day. It's housed in it's original coin silver Dueber heavy case, and had to cost a pretty penny, even then, and its manufacture date corresponds with the employment date of my Great Uncle at the time he started his telegraphers job. I theorize it HAD to be a gift from HIS father who was a very well known and successful German grocer/merchant at the the time my Great Uncle got the watch in 1890. He would have only been 20 or 21 at the time, so I KNOW HE couldn't afford it at his age, or on the salary he had to be making as a new telegrapher on that B&O branch line in the 1890's.

I also consider the fact that there were two TERRIBLE economic national depressions in 1893 and 1896, it's a wonder this watch even remains completely intact and still in the family!

Regards! Mark

When we buy these watches for $400 or under, and many very nice ones for ~$250 it is easy to lose sight that in their day many of these watches were in the same general ballpark of a mechanic buying a full tilt Mac tool set in the large rolling tool boxes. I use the calculator at times to remind myself how lucky I am and how things have changed. A watch costing one buck in 1900 would be in 100-170 range.

That's exactly why these watches remain a great investment opportunity. They're under valued. As their numbers diminish and interest in them grows, we're bound to see the prices for them outpace inflation and begin to reflect their original value. They're bound to eventually exceed that value at some point as well. It may not be in the next five to ten years, but it will happen.