...at this point in my collecting I have decided that since every movement can't or shouldn't be encased in a display case, I would like to, wherever possible, to have the watch 'type' identified on the label and to that end would ask if the Illinois BS 16S, or 18s for that matter, came w/a dial identifying it as a BS and some of those w/a 60hour designation?...

23J Bunn Special 163A in First Model Case...

Bunn Special Type I-R, Case 28 (early bow)...

21-Jewel 161A Bunn Special in Case 108...

23J Bunn Special 163A in Case Model 206...

...thanks Lindell!!!great pics too!!!am going to 'snatch your images' as a reference for me to begin the search for the 'right' dial for my B/S 60...thanks much!...

...PS: is the 3rd pic of a 21 Jewel BS?...if so that's what mine is and will be my target dial...thanks again...now to find one...

Jim, All of the 16S Bunn Specials came with a dial style like Lindell has shown, but not all of them had the extra markings other than the Illinois. The early 60 hr Bunns had a dial on which the minute marker arrows were pointed in. Sometime after Hamilton bought the Illinois company, they changed to the minute markers pointing out. As you will note on Lindell's watches, these are all later watches as the dials are "outie" dials.

I had a discussion with Lindell in Cleveland about Bunn Sp dials. From what old watchmakers told me--the style of dial on Bunn Specials, ie the large numbers and the large seconds register, were referred to as "Getty dials". Lindell disagreed with me and insisted that they are called Bunn Sp dials. I can only go with what the old watchmakers (experts) told me 30-40 years ago. I guess the jury is still out on this one. Anybody else heard them referred to as Getty dials?

Tom

...Lindell, here is a pic of my BS 60 hour...want the correct dial that states that it is a BS 21 Jewel 60 Hour...

...also the movement S/N 5168780...hope you can help me fit up w/the right dial...thanks!

Jim -

At the serial number your watch is at (5.1 million), I think the dial marked simply "Illinois" is just as appropriate as the one with the additional markings.

These marked Bunn Special dials can get rather pricey, and for a near mint to mint example of the 21J 60 Hour dial you can expect to see a price of $500 to $700. My own opinion here is that you are more likely to find a good value buying an entire correct original watch with this marked dial than you are to buy the dial alone.

In 18 size, the only additional markings I have seen on a Bunn Special dial are either "Twenty One Ruby Jewels" or "Twenty Four Ruby Jewels". These such dials I have seen have been the typical double-sunk Gothic Arabic numeral with Old-English "Illinois Watch Co." signature that one would expect on the grade, but with the additional marking in curved red letters above the seconds bit. These are a difficult dial to find, and the great majority of 18 size Bunn Specials came with dials without these additional markings.

One last add on 16 size Bunn Special dials is that in the mid to upper-mid 2 million serial number range the "Illinois" signature is usually straight rather than curved. And in the first few Bunn Special runs the outer track often has Gothic numerals, as below ...



Fred

...thanks Lindell and Fred for your inputs and advice...knew such a dial would be expensive but not to that extent...have decided to shop as Fred suggests for a BS w/the descriptive dial and perhaps 'sell-off' my present 'piece to help finance it...thanks...

Lindell, I am keenly aware of the differences from the Model 5 dials vs the Bunn Special dials. All I can repeat is what old line watchmakers/jewelers told me many years ago. Both were strictly Hamilton dealers at the time, but both had been Illinois dealers prior to the demise of Illinois. I never asked for the source, never had any reason to question them. I would tend to believe that they would know what they were talking about.

My question stands. Has anyone else heard these dials called a "Getty dial"?

Tom

I don't know a lot about these watches but it is my understanding that Getty was a designer with Illinois. He could have designed both the hidden winding wheel movement and the dial being referenced. There is no reason to suppose that the two designs have any relationship to one another.

Is there any data anywhere on what Getty actually did? Perhaps there are some dial design patents with Getty's name on them.

HI Tom, Thanks for the response. I am aware that Getty designed the model 4 & 5 movements. It was my understanding from the words told to me by the old jewelers (both now deceased) that the design of the larger seconds register was Getty's idea, thus the name a Getty dial. I don't think it has anything to do with the large numerals, but it is with the seconds register. Whether this was patented or not, who knows.

Many years ago, as a young man prior to the internet, I was a groupie with all of the local watchmakers. When I would hang out with them, they not only taught me how to work on a watch, but they would tell me many bits of trivia from the "early years". My mistake was not keeping a journal and writing all of it down. How much of what I was told was fact and how much was fiction, I will never know.

Tom