I own two 18 size hunting cases and have wondered if they were solid or filled. I took them to a local estate jeweler and he tested them using his electronic equipment. Both tested as 14K. How accurate is this form of testing for gold?

Jerry,

Can you capture some clear pictures of the markings stamped on the inside of the lids and post them on IHC? I have personally seen pawn stores who have tested 25 yr JBOSS Yellow Gold Filled 0-6 size hunter cases via electronic testing equipment and tried to sell them as solid gold. Therefore, raising a red flag...

Jon: I don't have photos. The first case was made by Michael H Cronin. The marks are his crown trademark and the word warranted. It also has his initials super imposed on each other.

The second case is marked warranted 14K but no name. It bears a mark that looks like two branches crossed at the bottom and open at the top. I have looked for this mark and never found it.

I have a gorgeous 18s OF non-magnetic in a case marked "permanent". I can't get it to swing open ,the crown won't retract, but my local jeweller tested it with his electronic tester and it tested 14k, though it is clearly marked "Permanent" which is a somewhat better mark than 25 yr warranted.

My local jeweler has all kinds of equipment to check for gold. When I brought a chain there he said he was 90% sure it was 10K gold and not gold filled but the only way to be for sure was to cut or file into it.

Jerry,

According to an article posted in the Jewelers Circular the Michael H Cronin trademark indicates a filled watch case.

Tom,

As to 'permanent' markings here is a post by Lindell: Solid Gold Hunter Case?

The Jewelers Circular Courtesy of Google books

Richard: The crown that is pictured in the Circular is not the one used by Cronin. So the information there does not apply.

Jerry,

Below is the Cronin trademark from trademarks of the jewelry and kindred trades published by The Jewelers' Circular 1904. As you can see it looks very similar to the one in the article above. Reading the article carefully it mentions "scheme" cases being sent to a company with a crown stamp. Do you have other information on the Cronin trademark and what was the trademark used by Cronin? Like Jon mentioned some photos would be helpful.

RR

Trademark from The Jewelers' Circular 1904

Here is the Muhr crown from an 1899 catalogue.

By "Scheme" cases I assume Muhr means in the letter that someone made cases of a lower quality than Muhr but with a mark similar to Muhr, correct?

Lorne,

That description of "Scheme" sounds correct to me.

Here is the definition from Merriam-Webster; Scheme: a clever and often dishonest plan to do or get something

That article above is confusing to me.

I have yet to find anything associated with Cronin cases being anything other than gold filled.

The point I was trying to make here, like others have mentioned, is electronic equipment is usually not an accurate way to test for gold.

Below is another source for the Cronin trademark.


Digest of trade marks for machines, metals, jewelry, and the hardware and ... By Wallace A. Bartlett

Richard: I have the Cronin mark in front of me and it is not the ones shown here as being his mark. I will try for a photo.

Jerry

Here is some information on Mr. Cronin.

RR

1184 The Jewelers' Circular and Horological Review , Volume 15

See photo of crown

And initials

It seems every one used the Muhr crown and attributed it to Cronin. They are wrong. If you cannot read the initials, it is MHC stamped upon each other.

Jerry,

The article above is stating that people were attributing the Cronin trademark to Muhr. It appears people were sending their Cronin cases to Muhr. The Cronin trademark, whether in illustrations or on your watch, has a crown and a star associated with it. On the other hand the Muhr trademark has the crown and a cross.

In any event the conclusion here is the electronic method of testing gold is not accurate. Clearly the Cronin case has no marking indicating anything other than ‘Warranted’ which is consistent with a gold filled case.

If you think the case is something other than gold filled then have a competent jeweler or watchmaker evaluate the case. The gentleman who used to own the watch and jewelry business in my town could usually “tell” if something was gold or gold filled by the way it looked and felt.

Another option is to take the case to a competent jeweler who buys gold and see what they have to say. If they suspect the case has gold value they’ll want to take a file to it and do some sort of “acid test” to find out what it’s made of before they give you an estimate.

I’m sure there are many people on this site that have much more knowledge evaluating gold cases than me. It would be good to hear other members and their experience.

Good Luck,

RR

Possibly depends what quality of electronic testing equipment is being used . An episode I'd seen on something like pawn stars was about $18,000.00 tester that showed % content of the elements. They took it on trial and ended up buying it.

Hi Guys here is something you need to consider I am a jeweler and have and use electronic testers in my business that are very accurate.

But let's think about how a gold filled case is made for a minute. Most will test gold because the outside of the case is gold but not the center. I always look at the stamping and look for wear thru to be sure.

I second that comment by Mr Harris and fully endorse it as the truth.

Gold Filled cases are made of two plates of real Gold on the top & bottom with a brass/composite layer in between, they then are run thru a giant roller-press that compresses the material to a desired thickness and in so doing "bonds/welds" the two material together by heat and pressure and that is how Gold~Filled cases were made.

For all practical purposes gold filled items register as real gold to the "standard" field grade electronic tester.

regards,
bb

A search turned up XRF, x ray flouresence. The x ray dislodges an electron from the sample, as this hole is refilled by another electron a photon(light) is released, spectrography of this light determines the element.
"Some" of these XRF testers can determine plated/filled. As the technology advances it looks like thickness could be determined.

Maybe it will prove its worth, maybe not

like a pistol, Very expensive, Few would have one.

Here is another case with the same marking that I would not think to be solid gold.
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