I recently purchased this very nice 8 size Illinois Hunter, my first hunter by the way, And I had some questions about it I was hoping this group collectively could answer. It is serial number 109606 from a poduction date of between 1881-1883. It is a model 151 with 7 jewels. It has a beautiful gold filled case with no manufacturers name other than the gold filled marking in the photo. Everything works perfectly and shows very little sign of any wear. Same is true for the near perfect looking movement which is about 125 years old.

My first question is, could this be a correct case for this time period? It has no other case screw marks in it and it does have the inscription "Frannie Davis Feb 14th 1885". This may have been a Valentines gift (if the holiday even existed yet) or engraved about a month ago to give it some authenticity for the sale. The case seems to perfect to be this old. Any one have something similar for this time period or know something about this hunter case?

Next the movement looks to be in near perfect condition as well except for some id*ot taking and grinding off the edge of the case screws (I still do not see the logic in doing that). The watch runs but extremely fast, several hours per day, and I suspect just a cleaning would resolve that. Any comments on that. I would like to get it into Chris's hands but was wondering if it would be worth it. Also, I would like to locate a couple of those blue case screws if anyone has any.

So let the discussion begin, I would like all criticism good or bad.

Steve

and her is some more.....

Here is another picture of the movement....

After researching a little, Valentines greetings were first massed produced in the 1840's so that could be a viable insription as a Valentines gift. Maybe Frannie didn't appreciate it and it sat in a sock drawer somewhere for a very long time.

Steve

Steve

Nice looking watch, the case screws are normal, I don't like those type but they are common on a lot of watches, I guess the reasoning behind them was you didn't have to remove them to remove the watch from the case. There are other posts where they have been talked about before.

Tom

Nice watch. It is not unusual to find these watches that old and in that condition. Some were just put up somewhere when new and not used. I have several that I have picked up over the years that show little or no signs of ever being used. It is a good feeling to get one like that,and it looks like a keeper. As for the time keeping,you should first get it cleaned and oiled,and see the effect that has. It may cure the problem,or not,but it needs to be eliminated as a cause,before trying to actually fix something,that may not be broken.

I just reread your post,and I doubt that servicing will cure several hours too fast a day. There are several things that may cause that. Wrong mainspring,wrong hairspring,or even the balance wheel may have been replaced with a wrong one. The two small pins on the regulator may be hooked on the wrong coil of the hairspring. The hour and minute wheels could even be wrong. I have experienced all these things on watches that I have purchased,and I even did the hour and minute wheel mixup myself once,when I was working on two watches at once,and kinda got the parts mixed.

Cecil,

Thanks for your input. I set this watch with the correct time this morning at 11:00. It is now 2:00 pm and the watch is reading 3:45.

While timing the second hand, it does a full minute sweep in about 40 seconds. Would that eliminate the mix up of the hour and minute wheels?

Steve

Hey Steve,
Yes,that does eliminate the hour and minute wheels. If you do not do your own work,this one will probably need the services of a repairman. I am not a watchmaker by any means,but I have seen some pretty sad cases of what has been done to some of these fine old watches. If the watch was mine,I would clean and oil it first,and if it still runs fast,and the hairspring looks good,and the balance is swinging in a nice full arc,I would add some screws to the balance wheel. Looks like there is plenty of room for more,and about 6 more screws would slow it down about that much. Like I said,I am far from a watchmaker,but this works for me. If any of you real repairmen know more,please chime in.

Steve, there has to ba a simple answer for a watch that good looking to run that fast. . .

The first thing I would check is to see if an extra loop of the Balance spring is stuck in the regulator pins as that will do exactly what you describe. Then I would de-magnetize it. If it still runs fast, I am sure that Chris can find the solution, and I would not run it very much until it has been looked at carefully.

Hi Steve,

Hopefully just dirt and hairspring stuck together, I can see its out of alignment, have a good look around the stud to see if anyone has had the stud pin out, possible indication of broken hairspring and end put in for eBay special or any shadows on the balance arms where screws once was, with power off does it look in beat...

Steve,

Can you demagnetize it? I seem to remember reading on another thread recently that this magically cured a watch that was way off on timing. Anyway, sounds like a hairspring issue of some sort to me.

Otherwise, I believe you have a nice original watch. These smaller watches are very collectible and essential if you want a well rounded Illinois collection.

Nice find!

John III

John,

I was going to take it to work today and run it across the demagnitizer there and see if that helps. This really is in remarkable condition for its age and I would like to see it running correctly again.

Steve

While I do not know what may be causing it to run fast, I do know that you have a very desirable watch. From my own experience, it is hard to find an originally cased size 8 or 10 from any maker. And of those that I have seen, including yours, the case engravings are something to behold. You have a great watch to add to your collection.

Well I took it in this morning and ran it over the demagnetizer for about 20 seconds and now it doesn't run at all. It seems the balance will move freely but the escape wheel doesn't want to go. I guess I will just let Chris take a look at it and see what is going on.

Steve

Got this one back from Chris the other day and it is running sweet. Chris did a full COA on it and readjusted the escapement. It also needed a new winding pinion which he replaced with the help from Brian C. (Thanks Brian). It is sitting here on my bench just a tickin' away. Glad I could rescue this one with "a little help from my friends."

Steve

Steve, I am very glad you got it working again. I have visions of Chris chipping away at all that codfish brain oil left in the watch from BEFORE Frannie Davis got it for her 1885 valentines day!

Some readers may be interested to know that John W. Bunn, the co-founder of the Illinois Watch Company, had an 8 sized Hunter watch custom made as his personal watch. It was upgraded considerably and was converted to what is known as a "Cut Hunter" where the front cover is cut out and another crystal installed. This watch is featured in an article in the Meggers-Ehrhardt Illinois book.

Steve

Glad you got the little beauty running again, Chris does such great work.

I tried to see if I could find anything on Fannie but there were several around at that time & without a little more to pin it down I wouldn't be able to say which one it might be.

Did see where Valentines Day has been around since the Roman Empire & starting about 1870 in this country is when cards started being given for it.

Tom

Steve,
I am glad to hear Chris got this one back in service for you.
When a watch is running very fast, a lot of the time the hairspring and or balance wheel are magnetized. How do you tell you ask, easy, I have a little compass that I took from a kids toy, I got at at the dollar store. With the watch running, put the compass on top of the balance cock, if the hand on the compass swings with the balance, it's magnetized. The needle on the compass should not move at all.
Brian C.

Great idea Brian. I'll have to keep a look out for one of those. What struck me as odd is after I ran it over a demagnitizer it stopped all together and would not run at all.

Thanks for helping Chris out again with the part ne needed.

Steve

Steve,
Sometimes if you run the watch through the demagnetizer while it's running, it can cause the watch to overbamk. I usually demagnetize with the watch stopped.
Glad I could help with the part.
Brian C.