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Help with Illinois Grade "Click" to Login or Register 
posted
Can Someone let me know what grade of Illinois this is?

Serail Number is 2480894.
19J three finger bridge

Thanks,

 
posted
Dial Pic

 
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
Nice looking watch Jared!

It should be a grade 185 19 jewels lever set made in 1912, there were a total of 37 runs & 17,430 made.

Grade 185 - Temperature, positions, ischronism, jewels in settings, rounded spoke gold-plated train wheels

Tom
 
posted
Thanks tom, I don't have the Illinois book, so it can be difficult to find the grades on some of them.

Thanks,

Jared B.
 
posted
Well, I think I have found out some more info on this watch. I wasn't even looking for it and happened to stumble across it. I always wondered who's initials the JMR were on the dial. It appears the watch was a private label for John M. Roberts Jewelry store in Pittsburgh, PA. I think this link will tell the rest of the story! I could only wish mine was marked with "Railroad Dispatcher". Interesting what you stumble across sometimes.

JMR Railroad Dispatcher

Jared
 
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
Jared

I never thought to look in the gold book until your last post & sure enough under letter J it has;
"Monogram (John M. Roberts Co. Pittsburgh ca. 1880-1897 this monogram has shown up on several dials & movements, the movements on some are marked Railroad Dispatcher and may have been one of his private labels"

Tom
 
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
Jared that's a great looking watch,

Just to add to what Tom posted your watch came out of a run of 30, 2,480,871-2,480,900. Also the Illinois "Blue Book" stated that all 185 grade 19J versions seen so far have been private label for the Burlington Watch Co. Also, the pattern on your watch isn't described under the 185 grade so I would think your watch is very uncommon.

RR
 
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
If this watch is looked up as a JMR private label instead of serial number it shows it to be a grade 183. The damaskeen pattern on a 183 is described as narrow or wide banded. Here's the kicker it shows total production of 7 watches for a 183 grade 19J.

I'm not sure how to interpret the information in the "Blue Book" hopefully others can expand on the possibility of your watch being a 183 grade.

RR
 
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
According to the disc file I use along with the Blue Book to research these, your watch is part of a 30 PC run from 2480871 to 2480900. These are NOT recorded as Burlington production.

Furthermore, these are all (in Gr 185 RR adjusted for tempeerature, positions and Isochronism.

To that end you have a watch that is at least part of a "grand" total of 30 pieces. Rare indeed!
 
IHC Life Member
Picture of Eugene Buffard
posted
One of my passions is collecting Getty and this dameskeeping pattern is very unusual. I don't have my watch book at my house but this is one I will have to look up tomorrow. Great Find.
 
IHC Member 1338
posted
I think Dave Abbe has got it figured out. It's a Grade 185 but I too believe one of 30 made for JMR and not Burlington. According to Illinois Blue Book, the last # for a grade 183 is 2,300,xxx so it wouldn't have fit in that category.

I have several JMR pieces in my collection, this one is beautiful!


Tom Dunn...
TIME MACHINE
www.myrailroadwatch.com
.
 
posted
Picked up a couple more JMR's last week. I guess you could say I've added another grade/type to collect! South Bends, Bunns, and now JMR's... I wonder what will trip my trigger next! Smile

 
posted
Here's an inside of the hunting case.

 
IHC Member 1036
Picture of Gary E. Foster
posted
Jared, Those are some very nice watches.
I have a watch, which may also be an example for this topic. It is an Illinois, serial #2049741. It has the same dial,and hands, is a size 16, open face Getty model 5, 3 finger bridge, wavy line pattern and is 21 jewels.

Gary
 
IHC Life Member
posted
Gary-
Your watch is one of a run of 200, total 250 made, Grade 185, Adjusted temp. and 3 positions, made in 1908.

Bob
 
posted
Gary-

If you could get a picture of the movement added, I would love to see it!

Thanks,

Jared
 
IHC Member 1036
Picture of Gary E. Foster
posted
Jared, here is a pic.

 
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
Jared,

Here's another JMR variant, serial #2480845.

The Illinois "Blue Book" doesn't seem to have a production figure for this combination. Possibly someone with the Illinois database disk can provide some insight as to production?

RR

 
IHC Member 1517
posted
Richard

The Illinois database identifies 2480845 as a grade 184 - unadjusted from the last run of 30 in 1912 from s/n 2480841 to 2480870. Total production for this grade was 17,032. This run is not identified in the Production Run list as "R.R. Dispatcher Special". There is only one earlier run for which the list has that note.
 
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Gary Foster has a very rare 1 of a total of 250 ever made 21J Grade 185. Oddly it explains adjustments of Temp, 3 Positions and Isochronism specifically. The 21J Jewels makes it more rare indeeed.
 
Railway Historian
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator
Picture of Larry Buchan
posted
Hello Jared:

A very interesting circular damaskeening pattern, it reminds me of the patterns that Webb C. Ball used on his watches.

Larry
 
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
Robert,
Thank you for looking up the watch and replying.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is the first reported example of a Grade 184 model 5 with 17 jewels marked RR Dispatcher Special? The pattern on this watch is the same as some very uncommon watches I've seen fronting a JMR dial. With such a low production run I'm starting to think the watch is uncommon. The Guide lists Railroad Dispatcher Extra or Special, 15-17J as a one star watch. The previous owner said the watch was in his family since purchased in 1912.

RR
 
Picture of Ken Habeeb
posted
Richard and Jared, here is another hunting model (JMR) RR Dispatcher Special (sn#1670975) I found not very long ago -- to add to this thread...

 
Picture of Ken Habeeb
posted
the 17 jewel movement with similar wavy damaskeen pattern as Jared's...

 
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
Ken,

That’s a good looking watch. It is neat how large the writing “Railroad Dispatcher Special” is because of the amount of space available due to the ¾ plate design.

RR
 
Picture of Ken Habeeb
posted
True, Rich, and it was relatively easy to service. Parts pretty much fell into place.
When I get a chance next week I'll try to put up a better lit photo of it.
Do you happen to know if this 3/4 plate Special is earlier or later than the three-finger versions?

k.
 
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
Ken,

The Getty design model 4 and 5 movements were introduced in 1896. Both the plate and bridge configurations were used in that year. The book American Pocket Watches; Illinois Watch Co.; Encyclopedia & Price Guide by Meggers and Eharhardt Volume 2 is a great resource to have if you don’t already. The CD is available on ebay from IHC Member Bill Sellover "partimeart" and relatively inexpensive compared to the book.

RR

American Pocket Watches; Illinois Watch Co. Page 146. Movements serial numbers from 1896

 
Picture of Ken Habeeb
posted
Richard --

I recently saw a JMR Getty for sale with a serial number just a count of 13 away from yours (2480857). Same movement marking.

kh
 
IHC Member 1736
posted
I picked up a loose Burlington 185 recently. S/N 2101106. It is in fantastic condition and runs great.

Problem is that the Fat Book skips the 185 and the descriptions under the Burlington models don't seem to line up well either.

How do I value a "triple signed" Burlington HC 185?

 
IHC Member 1342
posted
Hi Paul, I noticed the big book missed this grade also. Good question - how should we value the grade 185 ? Confused


Marc Micale
 
IHC Member 1588
Picture of Peter Kaszubski
posted
no less then $200 if dial is nice
those are under value watches in fat book and great time keepers.
 
IHC Member 1291
Picture of Buster Beck
posted
They made 23,480 just like yours all Private Label in 19J, Model-5, Grade 185 for Burlington Watch Co.

They were all adjusted to 3-4 Positions.

A triple signed Burlington case/dial/movement depending on condition should have a $200-500 retail value. The 185 grade by itself doesn't have a large following or demand even till today.

regards,
bb
 
IHC Member 1342
posted
Thanks gentlemen!


Marc Micale
 
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