Marc,

I have only recently began to sell off some of my inventory now that my interest have narrowed and my taste have become more refined.

The advise I've read and received since this post last year was to compare the make and model as close as possible to another of similar grade and attributes and make an educated guess from there.

It's kind of like appraising a house going on the market. Find similar comps, add and subtract for various attributes and condition, then take a swing at market value.

You will see that I've recently bought some watches here at IHC185... a couple I let ride until they dropped below wholesale... others I paid mid range or more for... it all comes down to things the Fat Book can't talk about and is, in all honesty, quite subjective.

If it is a high end model with low production numbers in flawless condition with an equally impressive case... you can figure I will be inclined to pay above book...

If it is a high production model with smoothed out case, screw drive marks on the movement, mismatched screws, hairlines in the dial... I'm not going after it for anything near even the wholesale number.

Beyond that, to truly narrow it down, I've learned to surf the completed auctions to see what buyers are actually willing to spend on this make and model... being careful to adjust for shipping and buyer/seller premiums and fees.

Just got this Burlington 19jewels Hunter Triple signed S/N 2142677 Model 4 Grade 185.What is unique about it is the curvet is glass.

Nice one.

I just acquired a grade 185 21J watch very close in serial number to Gary's that he posted about and showed. My movement number is 2049614 and it was stated by others on this thread that there were only 250 of the 21J movements manufactured. This movement has markings different than Gary's and other cosmetic differences which I assume wouldn't have been made in the same run as his. It was stated that there were two runs of these, one of 200 and one 50....thoughts please?

Hello Dennis I looked up your watch. You stated in your email to me that it is a 21 jewel sangamo. Even though your watch is a very nice example. It is not a Sangamo grade. Your watch is a grade 185. Which is only adjusted to at most 4 position. Your watch would not be Rail Road grade. It is possible that it could of been used on trolley service.

But this is only an assumption as I am not sure. Dave abbey would be able to answer that.

I'm attaching some info about the two grades.

You watch is from a run of 200.

Here is the info on one of the Sangamo grades.

As you can see it is adjusted up to 6 position. RR Grade has to be at least 5 position.

Thanks very much Eugene...the movement is in near mint condition and even though it wasn't RR eligible, it's a rare and very pretty movement...here's the front of the watch for anyone who is curious...

Dennis,

That dial is hard to find in that condition, great watch. My data base shows 1908 production and adjusted to 3 positions. The hands look great, there are seconds hands available to match the moon minute and hour hand, but the one on it looks fine too.

Great find.

Hi Dennis,
Thats a great looking watch, love those 3 finger, Getty movements.
As much as Eugene is definitely far wiser than I and likely can hold onto info a lot longer, surely he is aware that 3 pos. movements were allowed on several class 1 RR, Santa Fe for an example, but many more, and then of course they would and could be grandfathered as long as they maintained the standard.
Fortunately most consider these non RR so they are not as collecteable and the prices generally stay a little less, but one must realize that not all of us are purists, and if they werre allowed for service then they must be considered.
My HO only.
Bill

Dates and times changed all the rules. And there were exceptions to some of the rules such as "grandfathering" that you speak of etc. But for the most part [see majority] this watch would not have been allowed to enter RR service for a "new hire". Hence today we call it many things, but generally we don't call it RRG/RRA because it just isn't. We generally associate it and call it a "trolley car" watch for those reasons because it met the requirements to be used for that application.....

They are nice 3 position watches and were not intended when made, to market to jewelers and RR workers who came under time service requirements on the nations RR's. There were multiple watches in 1908 made by Illinois however, that were intended for RR service, it's just that this was not one of them.

1908 was 58 years before I entered RR service in Texas. The pocket watch in 1966 was the tool of the trade and it had to comply with a list approved by management. Wrist watches were not allowed on The Texas & Pacific Railway when I hired on but were allowed the following year, 1967. By 1970 there were wrist watches 10 to 1 and by 1980 the wrist watch was all that was seen.

I would just be glad the Illinois 185 isn't considered RRG/RRA as it will be somewhat easier on the pocketbook, and they are a beautiful watch

regards,
bb

Thanks for the info everyone and Buster, you may be right about being able to buy them for less than RR watches but that also means one can't sell
it for as much either. Take this one for example. The research indicates that only 250 of the 21J were made. Any high grade watch should be very valuable and highly coveted at that meager production number. But this won't bring any where near, say, what a 21J Bunn Special would bring at only 250 production. When/if I sell it, I'll make sure everyone knows how few must still exist since being produced in 1908...much less than 250, one can be sure of that!

quote:

"Take this one for example. The research indicates that only 250 of the 21J were made. Any high grade watch should be very valuable and highly coveted at that meager production number. But this won't bring any where near, say, what a 21J Bunn Special would bring at only 250 production. When/if I sell it, I'll make sure everyone knows how few must still exist since being produced in 1908...much less than 250, one can be sure of that!

Well then-- OK. It belongs to you and it will be your prerogative to market it to the best of your ability no doubt

There are probably more Illinois "RaRe" watches than the normal person could shake a stick at, literally hundreds with TOTAL PRODUCTIONS of 10 to less than 100 that have no clout, no interest, and no money offered up for them. I own an Illinois 21J one of 50 TOTAL PRODUCTION made, it is a "Beck's Special" and remains my avatar. [see attachments]

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...741058123#3741058123

It was manufactured the year my "Dad" was born in 1916 and having the movement/dial both signed and being a lovely two~tone movement it will remain with me till the end. What would it bring today on the open market ?? It simply has no following/demand and as such would only bring what two bidders may want to top out at. I mean if I said to a collector; "Would you like to see my RaRe "Beck's Special" ? I doubt anyone would go out of their way to see such a RaRe watch and furthermore they wouldn't even know what I was referring to. They would much rather see a Bunn Special 163 Type II which they also only made 50 of and is a RaRe watch, but not any more RaRe than my Beck's Special ! Then there is "crowd approval" following and money, the crowd might be willing to pay $25,000-40,000 and more for the 163 Type II, but; "HEY wait a minute guys, I have this ultra RaRe one here also, let's talk !" and the crowd would disperse like an "A" Bomb was seconds away from it's intended target !!

So scarce/rare yes, but it's the following/demand that makes the price of the watch, if that makes sense don't you see.... Today after 100 years there may only be 5-10 of these particular "Beck's Special's" anywhere World~Wide !!

quote:

"you may be right about being able to buy them for less than RR watches but that also means one can't sell
it for as much either.

And, that's just the way it is at times.......

As I said, "They are beautiful watches."

regards,
bb

Movement "Beck's Special";

Thank Goodness there are more collectors of watches that appeal to them, rather than ones that feel they must have a RR background.
Beautiful watch Dennis, enjoy,
Bill

Absolutely !!

[bench·mark : something that can be used as a way to judge the quality or level of other, similar things, a standard by which others may be measured]

There is always a "bench-mark" to everything, in pocket watches it just happens to be "RR", and we go from there.

I love them all

regards,
bb

Just havin fun !!!
Bill

Not to mention that there are many watches that don't meet RR specifications that will run within the timekeeping standards.