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|IHC Member 1338|
Anyone ever seen one of these before?
Waltham US Army Signal Corps Watch.
Has a Hi Grade 12S 19J Riverside Model 1894 under that rare dial Marked Adjusted (5 Positions).
Here's what the waltham database had to say about these "P" watches like this:
"P" stands for "Positions." These are usually 17-23 jewel watches adjusted to 5 or 6 positions. They almost always have a gold center wheel and the highest grades have an entirely gold train. Usually they also have gold jewel settings. The balance wheel usually has gold balance screws, and often has two pair of gold mean-time screws. A "P"-grade balance staff may have two oil grooves and has the finest pivots. The wheel pivots are the finest used on the model.
Thoughts on this one?
The only Waltham Signal Corps watches I have seen are the ones with the markings on the back of the case. This one has a floral and heart design which seems very unmilitary - perhaps it is not the original case? I look forward to learning from anyone who knows for sure.
|IHC Member 1101|
I find it rather interesting that it has a serial number that can be read right side up or upside down.
|IHC Member 561|
I never saw one cased up in a military marked case. Received one of these dials in a lot from LaRose years ago. I cased it up in a Swiss made gun metal case with a 17 jewel Waltham movement. The gun metal case looked more appropriate to me or maybe a silveroide case.
|IHC Member 1291|
I recognize Jim as a very informed participant in military watches on our site and I agree with his assessment.
Military operations are keyed to correct, or at least standard time, and synchronized time is particularly important. Army pocket watches normally were of two types; Grade I (railroad grade), and Grade II; the grade being determined by the requirements for accuracy. Grade II watches could have been anything from 7 jewel up to the Grade I [railroad grade].
It has been noted especially from periods during WWI that servicemen used their own personal watches for operations. With this particular watch being produced in 1907, I suppose it is a possibility it could have been used in the Signal Corps ??
So what was happening in the Signal Corps around that timeline ??
[On 1 August 1907, an Aeronautical Division was established within the Office of the Chief Signal Officer (OCSO). In 1908, the Wright brothers made test flights of the Army's first airplane built to Signal Corps' specifications. Reflecting the need for an official pilot rating, War Department Bulletin No. 2, released on 24 February 1911, established a “Military Aviator” rating. Army aviation remained within the Signal Corps until 1918, when it became the Army Air Service].
I suppose it would boil down to personal opinions on this watch. It does throw up a "red flag" as Jim suggests with the gold filled "hearts" engraved case.
To me nothing can be proven or disproved on the authenticity of this watch, so to me it merely "sits" their in it's perfect limbo.
One thing in finality, I believe that all Waltham 12 sz dials used the same foot patterns ?? So who knows if it went with this Model 1894 19J Riverside grade movement or not ??
I think it would have been a real treasure in a base metal or silverode type case ~perhaps and perhaps not~ with the Signal Corps logo engraved on the case back IMHO ONLY !!
As said Interesting......
|IHC Member 1338|
That's my thoughts on it too, Buster
Still a neat find tho, whatever it is or isn't.
Interesting observations, Guys! Keep 'em coming!!
It is a very nice movement and appears to be in excellent condition.
Ernest made an interesting observation. If he rec'd such a dial in a lot purchased from LaRose then maybe LaRose sold a few other extra dials as well. Thus, I take this as a note of caution regarding the authenticity of any such watch.
|IHC Member 1338|
Greg; I did pull the dial off when I got it and I can tell you this is not a Larose dial on this one, it's a real waltham. I have since sold the watch and didn't think to take a pic of underside. I really had no idea what this was or wasn't and sold it as just a 12S 19J Riverside with an unusual dial for same money I always sell a similiar watch for with a standard dial.
I just thought it was kinda neat and wanted you guys thoughts on it here.
Appreciate all the observations
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