Hello All,
I am having a little trouble finding out a lot about my Waltham 16s Ser# 31804303 adj T&3pos Military watch.
Does it have a Mdl# , how many were made, those types of things. Also it has an acrylic crystal and the hands have become quite rusted as a result, are there any remedies for this type of damage. Other than that it appears too run quite well, and keep reasonable time. Any info appreciated on this particular watch,
Thanks,
Bill

Could you post a few photos of it - some closeups of the dial and markings on the back, the movement and markings on the movement - also an overall photo? They made many different ones.

Also, are the hands actually rusted or is it radium paint? Radium paint is made from radioactive radium 226 mixed with zinc sulfide and some glue. The radium 226 is the power supply and makes the zinc sulfide glow but after a decade or so the radium is so powerful it burns out the zinc sulfide making it brown looking and non-glowing. Most old WWI and WW II era watches had radium painted hands, and most had dots and/or numberals also painted with it. Today this paint looks like brown crud or rust.

If what you have is radium paint, do not try to clean it off since it is quite harmful if you start to sand or scrape it and breathe in any of its dust.

Hi Jim,
Here are some photos of this Waltham. It does have a radium dial, so I am being careful about ingesting, inhaling residue from the watch. I understand the half life of the material is about 1900 years.

dial 2

back case

movement. There really does not seem to be a lot of information out there on the military issues. I was led to believe the case numbers were assigned to a particular person ? But have no way of finding that out. I have since found I think it is a Mdl 1908? Also is is American or British issue ?
Bill

The marking on the back cover the arrow is English military,It's a waltham there were two model's 1609 and 1617 I think it's a 1609 model and it's a 9 jewel,stem set and wound and the price waltham sold them for 12.50 plus 0.15 engraved for the first lot of 10,000 watches.And from the serial no it was made around 1944.

Thanks Mike,
are the watches with the numbers and the broad arrow all British Military, and the American ones have the markings of the contract or ordinance or that sort of markings ?
Bill

On the US one's they had Ordnance depatment USA and number on the back the english all ways had the arrow and black dials on there issued waltham's I have a Helvetia that is English Military here a photo of the back you can see they did a better job on yours.

Mike,
That was the other thing, I thought all the British ones on the lower jewelled watches, had the GSTP mark. I have a rolex with the gstp mark, and a Jaeger Lecoultre with the gstp marks, they also have the broad arrow.
Bill

There are quite a few different markings on WW II era British military watches. GS/TP is one, but there are a number of others such as the markings on your Waltham. The markings on your pocket watch indicate it would have been intended to be issued by the Royal Navy - though of course it is not a deck watch or comparing watch since it is only 9 jewels. Still, these are nice watches.

The rust on the hands appears to be something about which you will not be able to do anything. Trying to remove it would dislodge the radium. Also, cleaning it up would make the hands look like they did not belong to the watch give the overall patina. My suggestion is to leave them as they are. I think they give the watch some historical flavor in that they might have aquired their rust from being around some salt air of the sea. There is no way to tell if this is the case, but it makes for some nice thoughts about how this watch may have actually been used.

As for determining the man to whom this watch was issued based on the serial number on the back - that is not possible. I understand that such records were never kept given the enormous numbers of timepieces that were issued and the pressing needs of keeping supplies flowing quickly during the war.

Jim,
I agree I will leave it as is for the history, either real or imagined, also the safety factor.
it fits well with the others I have in my collection, at present.
Thanks for all the info on these watches.
Bill

There is the option to have the dial and hands refinished. I have had International Dial Co. refinish these dials, on Illinois dials anyway, and they redo the hands and numbers with luminecent paint. They did a nice job for me but the glow must be charged by a light source in order to give the effect of glowing in the dark. The good side of this is they remove the radium from the hands and dial so it is no longer a safety issue.

Steve

A dial discussed before

Bill,
If the crystal on your watch is a yellowed plastic one, it needs to be replaced with a new one. That is what will cause your hands to rust. The newer plastic crystals, don't turn yellow.
Brian C.

Thanks Brian and Steve.
I will e-mail International and see what's there, and will attempt to get the crystal replaced also, as it is quite yellowed. I wish I had the talant to do some of this stuff, but only a collector rather than a fixer.
Thanks for all the help,
Bill

Bill,

I know the feelings of tied hands when it comes to working on these watches. Outside of removing dials and hands I leave the rest to the experts. If you do send the dial out make sure you send the hands as well, Int'l Dial will redo those as well. I just sent two to them and one is an old radium dial that was on a 12 size A. Lincoln.

Steve

Bill,

Here is a luminous dial and hands that was done by them for me. It was pretty nasty originally.

Steve

And here it is after it has been "charged" by a light source.....

Steve,
Thats a beauty, nice looking watch and spectacular refinish.
Bill