Hi,

I've recently been given what I believe to be a GS MK II pocket watch which belonged to my Great-Grandad and was interested to find out some more information about it. I'm a complete novice to anything about this but did stumble across this page: British Horological Institute - Military Watch Information.

If I’ve understood this correctly this seems to say that they were military watches issued between the early 1900’s and the start of WWII. I was wondering if anyone could shed any more light on the watch, it's history, when and where it was likely to have been made etc.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I will post some pictures and more information shortly.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

As promised please find links to pictures of said watch. It's not in the great condition but hopefully these will help.

The back is engraved with an upwards arrow, GS MK II and then a reference beginning with "A"

The back of the mechanism (not sure of the correct term) has only the engraving "Swiss Made" and then the "F" and "S" adjuster which I assume means faster and slower?

Once again thanks in advance.

Dave

Watch and Case
Face
Mechanism
Back1
Back2

I think the wording in that article is unclear. From what I know GS Mark II watches are mid to late 1930s. Supposedly the ones with the black faces were used as pocket watches, and the ones with the white faces were issued without bows on the winding stem and were used on various instruments or mounted to panels and such.

Cheers Jim. So you think this is either a pocket watch where the black face has been replaced with a white one or a mounted watch with a white face where the bow (I assume this is the part that you clip the chain to?) and chain have been added later?

Is the reference number beginning with "A" of any use to finding more information?

Thanks,

Dave

The number beginning with A is not a reference number, it is the British Army's serial number of that particular watch. So far as I am aware there are no records on serial numbers. I am sure the Army must have had records at some point in time when they owned the watch but those are the sorts of records that were long ago thrown away as there was no reason to go the expense to keep them once they surplussed the watch, or once it was stolen by a soldier which is the other way many of these made their way into private hands.

As for the white face my guess is that it is more likely to have the dial original to the watch than the bow. I have seen bows commonly added to all kinds of bow-less military watches to turn them into something that could be carried as a pocket watch after the war when these were sold off in large numbers as war surplus. Local jewelers were the ones who typically did this, since most people did not want a watch without a bow.

Jim is nearly right the pure white faced pocket watches were RAF and on watches for navigational use in aircraft.

6E/50 is a military code assigned by the British Air Ministry during World War 2 to a type of pocket watch issued to observers and navigators in the Royal Air Force. These watches are very similar to the GSTP watches issued to the British Army except that they lack luminescent paint on their dials and hands. Accounts suggest that such watches were more practical than wristwatches as they could be laid on the maps and charts from which the airmen were working and be more easily read at a glance
... marked 6E/50 like this:


Here´s a few to compare with:
6E/50
...and the GS MK II looked like this:





Here´s an extract from the Royal Signals on GS Watches:

Watches, G.S.
The key-wound pocket Watch of 1870 earlier mentioned was superseded by a keyless Watch (Mark II), and the latter was supplemented during 1903 by Paragraph 11845 providing that future manufacture of it would no longer rigidly adhere to Paragraph 4400 and "... watches of ordinary trade patterns..." would be provided as necessary.

Through financial years 1905/06-1912/13 the 'Director of Army Contracts' recorded overseas purchases of clocks, watches and parts at only an average of about £ 60 a year. It seems safe to assume that supplies of both 'pattern' and 'trade pattern' watches came from the British watch trade. It is clear, however, that not many were issued with this Watch (Mark II). An Expeditionary Force Infantry Battalion of 1914 numbered 1000 men, but received only eight watches. One to the Signalling Sergeant and the others to be shared among 16 RE Signallers. Even if every commissioned officer wore his own watch, as required, one is forced to wonder how matters were actually arranged in that first hectic summer on active service. As the war progressed, of course, that situation altered and various patterns of available pocket watch had to be pressed into general service with British armed forces.

In February 1918, therefore, Paragraph 20175, which is set out below in relation to the Watches, RA., promulgated a preferred pattern of Watch, G.S. An example of this is shown. It has a seven-jewel Model 1910 Williamson 'Astral' lever movement and the Denison screw-on plated case-back is unusual in being stamped 'G.S.'. Most of these case-backs carry just a Broad Arrow and the inventory number used for an old Watch, (Mark II). The Armistice saw a great many Watches, G.S. in hand but, nevertheless, that pattern was declared obsolescent in July 1929 when Paragraph A4728 introduced Watches, G.S. Mk II and designated the older watch Mk L Röhner illustrates a Mk I case containing a Rolex movement, but a non-luminous dial and hands spoils it for me.

Both Mk I and MK II Watches, G.S. were formally described as: "Keyless, with leather thong: strong lever, 3/4 or full plate type, in metal case, with strong crystal glass, fully luminous", but the G.S., Mk II instrument specifically had a "15 jewelled movement...." and £1978 was expended overseas for some of them, in the Financial Year l935-6. This because "British movements (were) unobtainable". What I believe to be an example from that purchase, 3, has a Swiss Fleurier jewelled lever movement, Another such was a Rlex (fully luminous) similarly engraved 'G.S. Mk II'.

The Watches, G.S. Mk I and Mk II were both specifically omitted (as 'obsolete'), when Paragraph 7422 promulgated a 1956 edition of the Vocabulary.

Original here: Royal Signals

Thanks,

All interesting stuff.

On another note I’d like to give the watch a bit of TLC and a polish. How should I do this as I wouldn’t want to damage it?

Thanks,

Dave

Keep it away from a buffing machine or vigorous hand polishing with any polish that has abrasives in it. It is already in very rough shape with the markings on the back having been worn or polished away to the point they are very weak. A buffing wheel could make that even worse or eliminate them and those markings are really critical to the value of this as a military timepiece. You want to do what you can to preserve them, not make them go away for the sake of a shiny watch.

A soft cotton cloth, slightly dampened can clean surface dirt off of the case if you want. If you want to run the watch you should have the movement professionally serviced (or do it yourself if you are a skilled watchmaker). This will cost a fair amount, usually something in the hundreds of dollars since you would be paying to have a highly skilled craftsperson disassemble it completely clean and oil everything and set the timing. That takes costly specialized tools and a fair amount of time. Do not take it to one of those jewelry kiosks that advertise watch cleaning for $25 or so since all they do is dunk the unassembled movement in a quick ultrasonic bath and give it a quick spray of lubricant which does very little to help. A skilled watchmaker can also clean up the hands and dial to the extent possible given the damage. Unless you know what you are doing I would recommend that you not try that part on your own.