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I got this over the week end almost did not go to the meeting becouse I was going backpacking on monday.Glad I went I found this a RAF 6B/234 pilot's watch.A Waltham 870 movement in a dennison case.The 234 stands for repair/reissue so that is how the Waltham movement ended up in this watch you can see 159 crossed out and the repair mark 234.Can any one shed some lite on this one.
I found another at the MWR forum here is the thead.
I think the movement started off as a 17 jewel and had another jewel added for the sweep hand just like the Elgin raymond started off as a 21 jewel and had another added for a sweep hand to make it a navigation watch.The Dennison case is a solid case so I think it was made for the waltham.
Here is a photo of my Elgin A-11 and my Waltham AM 6B/234 side by side about the same size as the Elgin.
Ernie B. from MWR forum told me the movement was made in 1940 same year the watch was issued.He said they only made the 18 jewel 870 movement for a few years.
An interesting watch. I'm not sure what to make of it. Was England so hard up for watches that this marriage was made in Royal service during WWII? Could be, anything is possible and the markings are correct. As an investment a buyer should be cautious about spending alot of money for non-standard watches. There are way too many skilled people turning out fakes and marriages these days.
Waltham watches with the '42 movement were sent to England in considerable numbers in WWII. But these watches were issued in the American made cases they came in. The dials were black and everything was the same as Waltham's USAAC A-11 watches.
Thank you for the images.
Greg here is one that sold on fleabay.I got mine at a meet.
Same case same hands same case marking.And waltham only made the 870 18 jewel movement from 1940-1941.This could be a rare Waltham 6B/234 they did use dennison cases for 6B/159's and this one is a solid case that only a 8 3/4 ligne 870 waltham movement will fit.Now let say you paid what a US A-11 that not a lot at a mart and this turns out to be real and if it is there not a lot of them don't you think it worth it.When I found this other one when doing a search at the MWR forum it just mite be real more home work to do.
Another thing I just notice the cover has 7488 and the case by the lug has 7488 so cover and case go together.
Just like the one that sold on fleabay
I guess home work pays off I found this web site.
No photo but it had this info,Model MKIII,Description wrist watch,Comments Waltham,Speification G.633,Ref Sec.6B/234
I did send the web master a email maybe be he will reply and I mite get lucky and this will be the watch listed at his site.
|IHC Member 478|
In my book British Military Timepieces I show some Walthams and Bulova 6B/234 and some with Denisson recase.
. Gruesse/Regards/Salute Konrad Knirim
PS: Have a look at my new book:
British Military Timepieces
I was looking on Ebay for 870 movement's and some one was selling part's for a 870's that came out of a military field kit.In the book military timepieces there is nothing on the 870 but in a repair manual I have there is.Here is a photo of the repair kit box.
Since this is a 8 3/8 ligne size is smaller than most use by the US military does any one have a US military watch with a 870 movement if you do can you post a photo of the movement in the case I think it mite have the same set up as my case.
I took this to get a serviced the other day.He also buys and sells watches he ask what I paid for it and then he said what a seller would buy it for to make money 180.00 more than what I paid for it.Now tack on what ever a seller would sell it for to make a profit and I guess I did good on this one.He said he has seen this type before.Another member told me he saw four of these he pm me from another forum he also has one.So it starting to look like I did good on this one.The strange thing is this has been for sell at the NAWCC mart I go to for some time and nobody touch it becouse no one knew what it was good for me the price keep getting lower.That was good for me.
Having taken a couple of days to look into to the differences between a 6B/159 and 6B/234, I have concluded that a 6B/159 could conceivably be remarked as a 6B/234.
Both are watches intended for use by navigators. The following information is gained from the official RAF descriptions.
The Mk VIIA was built to specification G.535. It has a 36 hour keyless lever movement, blued steel hands. Most have rotatable bezels. The case can be made of either stainless steel, chromium plated nickel or chromium plated hard brass. The dial can be either a silvered metal or white vitreous enamel finish. The RAAF describe it as being a movement of 'normal' construction with it being a Longines Weems type.
The Mk VIII, 6B/234 was made to specification G.633. The Mk VIII has the same description for case etc. The movement is described a little bit differently in that it is stated as having a 8 3/4 ligne movement of the Waltham type. The movement has 18 jewels, is of a 36 hour keyless lever design, with a fully jewelled Swiss type lever escapement. The Mk VIII can have either a black or white dial face.
While I have not yet located copies of the above specifications to know exactly what they say in respect to performance, the following before service, serviceability tests give an indication:
The Mk VIIA is rated at:
3 hours +/- 3s
6 hours +/- 5s
12 hours +/- 8s
24 hours +/- 15s
The Mk VIII is rated at:
3 hours +/- 5s
6 hours +/- 10s
12 hours +/- 15s
24 hours +/- 30s
So if a Mk VIIA performances outside of its specification and it meets the Mk VIII specification, then it can be designated as such.
Hope this answers the question?
Craig thanks for the info.
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