Hello All, You've all seen my Ships clock with Swastika and Eagle on face. I learned a bit more info' today,Talking to a retired Royal Navy Submariner Officer,I told him of my clock and said I wondered how they came to be in England and in collectors hands. Straight away he replied that in the early 50's he and others were given the job of stripping out a large raft of captured/surrendered U-Boats. These were then sent to various scrap-yards or used as targets for the Navy to practice on, some on the surface others were sunk and used as seek and find targets. To the Point, He told me he and others were selling the Clocks and Engraved ships bells for Beer money, He remembers £5 for a clock and a little more for a Bell. He now wishes he kept one of each for himself. Regards, Ged.

Thank god for beer money! Otherwise, those clocks would be on the ocean floor.

BTW, Ged, given that you are fortunate enough to own one of those beer-money-U-Boat-clocks, I think you owe that man a beer!

Besht regardsh, hick,
Greg

Dear Ged & All,

As a complete 'newbie' can I begin by apologising for any errors I may make due by my lack of knowledge on either clock-related matters, or the correct terminology to use when describing them. Having seen the pictures of Ged's clock, however, the one thing I am sure of is that I'm in exactlythe right place on this site - because I've just bought one the same in a local auction!

The catalogue description was "A fine quality brass cased German U-boat clock in fine working order, circa 1941, from the Atlantic Patrol, having Roman numerals and seconds hand, the face stamped with the number 14409", although the reference to Roman numerals is clearly incorrect as they are Arabic.

As with Ged's example, mine also has the 'N' etched in black beneath the number 14409 and the letter 'M' beneath the Eagle and Swastika. On the rear cover, which is painted black, the number 15050 is stamped. The number '50' is also stamped on the bezel hinge on the left-side of the brass case, and again on the key-operated opening mechanism on the right-hand side of the case.

With the bezel fully open, it is clear that the brass was originally painted black, and I suspect that the whole outer case was too at one time. At 2 o'clock on the outer edge of the dial is what I take to be an 'advance/retard' fine adjustment, with the letter 'V' on the left and the letter 'N' on the right.

I have deliberately left the clock in exactly the condition I found it in and have not been tempted to even clean the brass case, let alone polish it. Where mine differs from Ged's (I think) is that it still has its three original drilled fixing lugs intact on the back casing. These are positioned at 4 o'clock, 8 o'clock and 12 o'clock and, like the back, they appear to be made from steel.

Now for the best part! When I got it home I simply wound it up - and its been running like a watch (sorry about the pun!) ever since. Not only that, it keeps very good time too, although it is being kept on its back for safety reasons and not upright on a wall. The only minor downside is that the original winding key is missing and has been replaced by a modern 4.50 MM version.

Clearly I am not qualified to delve into the clock's inner workings to establish its origins or other information but I have no reason to believe that it is anything but genuine. There are certainly no signs whatsoever that it has ever been tampered with.

If my clock is of general interest, I will ask my son to come and take a series of photographs for posting, as regrettably my own skills are to photography what Kojak was to hair oil!

Can I take this opportunity to wish A Happy Christmas and a 'Time-Filled' New Year to you all.

Anthony

Hello Anthony,

Welcome to IHC185. It's a pleasure to hear about your early Christmas gift. The N stands for the Nord (North Sea) fleet.

Images of your clock would be of great interest. Esp. the mounting lugs, so often missing from these time-pieces.

Best regards,

Greg

Welcome to this great forum, Anthony! While it is a small group at this time, the guys here are truly helpful and we have stimulating discussions on military timepieces - both to share knowledge and to puzzle out mysteries.

It sounds like you have a really nice German navy clock that was used in their North Sea fleet. Sharing photos of it would be warmly welcomed.

Below is a more lengthy discussion on German navy clocks than the one you found. As you will see, these were generic clocks that were used on all sorts of ships and without some really good provenance that goes beyond an oral history (which I have found tend to be either embellished or incorrect 95% of the time) you can not assume that they were used on a submarine. As Oliver points out in this other discussion, ones that are marked with either the N for Nordsee or O for Ostsee are not likely to have been used for subs, as opposed to the ones with neither marking (for Atlantic fleet). Still, they are all really nice clocks.

Here is the link to the other discussion on these:

Submarine clock thread

Hello All,

Many thanks for the warm welcome to the forum!

My intention is to keep the clock in its 'as found' condition at least for the time being and I have asked my son to take a series of pictures with a view to posting them for comment. This may take a while, as I will be away from home for two days this week and then it's Christmas and New Year holidays of course.

Fortunately I know the auction house I bought the clock from fairly well and intend asking them if they would be prepared to contact the vendor on my behalf to find out if there are any further details or snippets of information connected with it. This is a rather long shot I know, but it just might turn up something useful - let's hope so anyway!

Regards,

Anthony

Gentlemen,

Thank you for being patient but at last I can (hopefully!) publish the first picture of my clock.

Regards,

Anthony

Sorry folks, the picture lost some of its sharpness in reducing it to the maximum permissable size.

Will reprimand my Number 1 son and tell him to do better next time!

HAPPY CHRISTMAS!

Anthony

Thank you Anthony,

A fine clock. Would it be possible to see the back as well?

Best regards,

Greg

Hi Greg,

Yes of course, it will be my pleasure to post a picture showing the back of my clock and hopefully several other views as well.

However, I will take further advice in an effort to iron out problems with clarity, as the first picture does not really do it justice.

Regards,

Anthony

Gentlemen,

My apologies for the delay in posting a picture of the back of my clock, but I now realise that our camera is simply not capable of producing the quality required. I have therefore roped in a friend with a much better camera and hopefully the end result will be better.

As mentioned previously, all three lugs and the back casing are made of steel which has been painted black.

Regards,

Anthony

Hi everyone
If anybody is interested, there is currently a WWII German UBoat clock on EBay under Item # 6592451174. It has just under four days to run, and the current bid this new years eve afternoon is £325. That is aprox: $559 US or $650 Canadian.
In Canada, that is a lot of beer money, and even in the UK it would still buy you a fair amount of Best Bitter at the local.
A very happy New Year to everyone.
Ben Roberts
Ottawa
Canada

Anthony, that is a fine picture. It will be invaluable to those trying to restore missing lugs.

Ben, nice to hear from you. I hear from my inlaws that Ottawa is rather cool right now. Thanks for the heads-up regarding the KM clock! That is a lot'a beer money in Michigan, as well.

Best regards to all for the new year!

Greg Crockett

quote:

Reply to Post

Hallo Evrbdy,

i think you will like to know that you own a nice

Kieninger & Obergfell,8 day Kriegsmarine Wanduhren

early s/n of the few thousands made, with proper hands, used either on ships or U-Boots.

rgds

Enzo

Mille grazie, Enzo.

Can you tell me which of the two numbers is the serial number for my clock - is it 14409 as shown on the face, or is it 15050 stamped on the base? And is it possible to tell from the serial number when it was manufactured, please?

Regards,

Anthony

Hallo Evrbdy,
Antony ,my pleasure!
The N number is the commissioning number, the other is the case number, it is normal that they do not match.
Here is a typical installation of the clock on board a sub in the electric engine room.
My opinion it was manufactured in 1943, interpolating other miscellaneous serials.
tnks rgds

copyright Timothy J. Burton

Dear All,

On the 31st December, Ben Roberts posted details of an e-bay auction for a U-boat clock which had a starting price of £325.

I've just noticed that by the time this auction ended on the 4th January, 16 bids had been made, culminating in a winning bid of £499-17. At the current exchange rates, I believe this equates to about $883US, or $1,028 Canadian. In beer money terms, that's enough to keep me 'well oiled' until next Christmas at least!

It's also apparent that the 'e-bay' clock is NOT the same as the ones which Ged and I own. It has a case diameter on only 6 inches, and a depth of 2.5 inches and does not appear to have a seconds hand. However, an interesting series of photographs of it can be found by logging onto e-bay and entering the number Ben gave, which is 6592451174.

I hope that my reference to prices does not contravene the rules of posting here - my sincere apologies if it does.

Regards,

Anthony

Dear All,

My clock has now been opened but the only additional information I have is that the number 15050 which appears on the back of the case is also stamped on the movement. Would I be right in thinking this indicates that it is the original movement?

Apart from that, there were no other markings visible, although I should perhaps add that both the movement and the clock face have been lacquered.

Regards,

Anthony

Hallo friends of German U-Boot clocks,
here you see the same clocks used by the Luftwaffe, maybe on support ships for the anti aircraft artillry on the coastline.

here is a bit more information on these WWII. ships clocks of Kieninger & Obergfell (KundO) as Acrobat files:
http://www.knirim.de/a912mond.htm

And of the WWI. ships clocks:
http://www.knirim.de/xwandww1.pdf

. Gruesse/Regards/Salute K o n r a d K n i r i m
. konrad.knirim@t-online.de
. http://www.knirim.de

Hallo friends of German U-Boot clocks,

here you see similar clock made by Glashutte after WWII. The casing is almost the same, the movement is similar but different in details and made in Glashutte not in the Black Forrest.


. Gruesse/Regards/Salute K o n r a d K n i r i m
. konrad.knirim@t-online.de
. http://www.knirim.de

A Luftwaffe ship clock! That is totally new information for me.

since there was a Luftwaffe Tank battalian then a few Luftwaffe ships cannot be a suprise.

Is this clock a new addition to your collection Konrad? If so, then congratulations.

Best regards,

Greg Crockett

I just picked this up.
I am a novice and need some opinions:\