Since naval aviation was usually just spotter float planes on battleships and cruisers or the first Carrier USS Langley. The brass case Waltham US Navy is considered rare.

quote:

USN

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Hi Perry. These were procured and used both during the war and for many years afterwards. I completely agree that they are less common than the 'Aviation Section Signal Corps' and 'Air Service' ones. I only have one Navy one myself in my little collection of this era of Waltham aircraft clocks. In looking at yours I note that there are two dates scratched on the back - 1922 and 1926 which makes me wonder whether this one may be a post war example from the 1920s. The war ended in November, 1918 of course. When you unscrew the back, what is the serial number on the movement? This will tell the approximate year the movement was made and assuming it is original to the case (there is little way to tell whether the movement is original to the case or not) it will help date the clock.

The brass case is interesting.

All of the "A.S.S.C. U.S. Army" clocks I have examined -so far- have had white metal cases.

Are all of the U.S. Navy clocks of this type in brass cases?

Best regards,
Greg

I've not seen many Navy versions, but of the ones I have seen, some are in brass and some in white metal. I have an hypothesis that the early ones are in white metal cases like their Army counterparts since it would have been simpler to make them this way during the war, and the brass ones are post war when there was no rush or shortage of copper and brass for war needs, but I have no facts on which to base this hypothesis at this point. Finding our the serial number in this one might help either support or contradict this guess.

Inside the case cover was scratched H77 1921

The movement Number is:
20553409

Can you date it?

The serial number for the movement would be around 1916. The question remains as to whether it is original to the case. The date scratched inside the case seems to correspond to the dates scratched on the outside of the case which suggest that perhaps the case is later. It is hard to tell though, in that these scratchings might also be markings from a watchmaker who was repairing the clock at those times - though I do not recall seeing such large watchmaker repair scratchings - normally those are tiny and only on the inside of a case or on a movement. These movements were made in large numbers over the years and used in many kinds of clocks including automobile clocks and so there is always a reasonable chance that a movement is not original to a case.

The Charles River Museum of Industry Waltham Mass has the following timepiece on display

Waltham Airplane Clock Model XA S/N 209918217
Circa 1917. 7J

Hi Frank,

How is the dial marked? ASSC, or U.S.NAVY

Any idea if it has a brass case?

Thanks,
Greg

Hi Frank. Is that clock a Navy dialed version or an ASSC dialed version? Also, is its case zinc (white metal) or brass? Thanks!

Here is a list of the aircraft flown by the Navy during and just after the WW I era. While there are quite a few flying boats and float planes, there are also a large number of land planes as well as some different kinds of lighter than air aircraft.

US WW I era Naval aircraft

Greg & Jim

I will be going to the Charles River Museum
Next Thursday. I will examine the Model XA
Airplane clock and will try to give you more
details.

Frank

The aircraft airplane clock on display at
The Charles River Museum of Industry
Waltham Mass has the following marks on
the dial.

A. S.

U.S. Army

Waltham

The case is not brass

Thanks Frank - that is good to know.

The A.S. marked examples of these are mostly post war. The name of the U.S. military aviation branch of the Army was the Aviation Section, U.S. Army Signal Corps or A.S.S.C. from July 18, 1914 until May 20, 1918. It was renamed the Division of Military Aeronautics for just a few days days - from May 20, 1918 until May 24, 1918 when it was again renamed the U.S. Army Air Service or A.S. It kept this name, A.S., until July 2, 1926 when it was renamed the U.S. Army Air Corps or A.A.C. On June 20, 1941 it was renamed again and became the U.S. Army Air Force or A.A.F. Then the final change was on September 18, 1947 when it was taken out of the U.S. Army and made a separate branch of the U.S. military and was named the U.S. Air Force or U.S.A.F.

Since the A.S. was in existance for just the last few months of WW 1 which ended on November 11, 1918, and since it would have taken a little time for new contracts for war material suppliers to specify the new markings and for them to switch over to, and then there would be a bit of time before deliveries of the newly marked materials, the chances of things that are marked A.S. as being wartime are relatively small. At most, if one were to assume a manufacturer converted to the new markings and began shipping orders on the same day of the name change, that still means that of the 98 months the Army Air Service was in existance, the war was going on for only the first 6 of those months. It is possible to find wartime produced timepieces and other objects marked A.S, but the odds are much higher that they are post war. I imagine the museum would not want to open up their clock for you, but if they did that would help date the movement - though as I mentioned above these movements are pretty common and widely used in more than aircraft clocks of the time so it is not possible to know for sure if one is original to the case or even to the the dial given the number of repairs most of these have had over the past 80 to 90 years. Still, I like these nice old Walthams and think they are great military timepieces.

Jim

The Charles River Museum Of Industry has a
Famous persons display of individuals who
used Waltham instruments. As you are aware
the instrument panel of The Spirit of Saint
Louis had a model XP installed. The XP in
appearance looks exactly like the XA model,
with the exception that the XP has a 15 Jewel
movement and the XA has a 7 Jewel movement.

The museum is interested in purchasing the
XP model.

Frank

PS There is a difference on the dial of XA & XP

On the XA The seconds ring covers most of the 12. On the XP the seconds ring is smaller

On 4 April 1927 Charles Lindbergh purchase
the 8 Day Model XP , with mount #314 for $32

This is on display at the Smithsonian in D.C. Note the cut-out in the instrument board for winding and setting the clock.

Greg

In some of my photos showing the instrument
panel there is a cover with a knob to cover
the cut-out.

Frank

PS At the time Lindbergh purchase the Model XA
he also purchased 1 Speed Timer type #93
(stop watch) for $18

Does any one have any details on this
speed timer???

Frank

Greg

A closer look at your photo of the XP I think
I can see the cover with knob. In some photos
I have the cover is not installed.

Frank