While browsing eBay I found this military wristwatch that I thought looked cool.

As a newbie wristwatch collector who also knows very little about military watches, I'd appreciate any comments about whether this watch is worthwhile, things to look out for, etc.

The same seller has quite a few other similar watches listed:

Click here to view seller's other items

Is there anything on that list that a new military WW collector should particularly want to go after?

This seller also has a couple of watches like this one, except they have what is said to be a NOS Waltham dial, except it is unsigned, and of course he wants more for those.

From a collector's standpoint, I think I would prefer an original signed dial like this one, even if it does have a few freckles.

I also have a couple of questions:

1) Were the hands and dials originally treated with radium on these watches?

2) What about the band/strap, is that original?

Auction Image

1) Were the hands and dials originally treated with radium on these (Ord Dept.) watches?

YES. Most of them had radium. One way we can see the dial on the above watch is original is the radium burn mark from the hands being left in one position over a long period of time.

2) What about the band/strap, is that original?

NO. It is an old commercial strap, it may be as old as the watch but it is not military. Issue straps were O.D. green or tan cloth. Walthams originally came with two part straps. Elgins often had a one part strap w/an Elgin marked buckle.

Some of the watches in the sellers auctions look ok, though I have not looked at them all in detail. Nothing exciting on first glance. No extra good deals.

In general, I don't like auctions w/o pictures of the movements. Some of these watches came with inner backs, etc and it's good to see if they are present.

Regarding original dial w/name - I agree they are the way to go.

The Waltham Ord. Watch pictured has a problem with the case back. For some reason, I see what looks like two shallow holes drilled into the back. Otherwise, it is a nice case.

WWII Ord Dept watches and A-11 pilots watches are available in large enough numbers that you can be sellective of what you buy. The worst problem with them is brass showing through the chrome. A more recent problem is fake cases, fake dials, etc.

Best regards,

Greg.

Greg,

Thanks so much for your insightful and informative reply. This is exactly the type of stuff I need to be learning about military WW's before getting my wallet out!

Speaking as a mechanical engineer, those holes drilled in the back cover look to me like they were meant to fit a particular spanner wrench someone had so he could get the case back open without having the proper type wrench to get a grip on the flats along the rim.

Another watch on this seller's list has also been modified to fit a different improper spanner.

Three additional things to consider:

1) Whenever someone says a watch has been serviced and you are seriously considering buying it, you should always ask for the details on what they mean. If they mean a professional watchmaker took it apart, piece by piece, cleaned each piece, replaced all worn or damaged parts, reassembled it, and adjusted it to keep perfect time, then that is a huge distinction from either removing the back and spritzing the movement with a bit of WD40 or even removing the movement and dunking it in an ultrasound cleaner for a while. Those kinds of servicing should be considered detrimental and subtract value while the former is desireable and adds value. If the gouges in the metal on the back occured during this recent "servicing" my guess from the crude and destructive routing is that the "servicing" was more than likely done by an amateur and should be considered to be a big detriment to value. No professional watchmaker I have ever run across would not have such basic tools on their bench as the assortment of back openers that would include one to fit a watch like this one.

2) You mentioned that you were considering bidding on this auction. I took a look at this seller's auctions and I noticed that none of them are actually auctions. They are all retail sales offerings with no auction aspects. All have a buy it now price that is the same as the starting price. You bid once and it is yours. In my opinion, whenever I see sellers using this technique on Ebay, they tend to price their things at very full retail prices. Of course some sellers do a similar but less obvious technique of making a real auction but setting the starting bid at a very full retail price.

3) Welcome to the fun world of collecting military timepieces! In addition to investing your time on fora like this one to learn, you should also make your first financial investments not on timepieces but on reference books to prepare you for sorting the real things from the over-restored or forgery things. There are no great all in one books, but a good place to start is Marvin Whitney's "Military Timepieces". Hopefully you can find a copy of this 667 page hardcover book for its original selling price of $75. I would not recommend going to Amazon where the used book sellers there are offering it for a range of $200 to $795 as I think those are crazy prices. Then, if you are going to focus on WW II timepieces, you should think about picking up copies of the Army technical manuals on these. These are easy to come by as reprints, or if you look a bit you can find period copies which in my opinion are nicer to have. For a copy of the Marvin Whitney book I might try places like chronometer.net or wartimers.com to see if they still have any copies in stock at the original price. For the best WW II era Army technical manual, you should get "Wrist Watches, Pocket Watches, Stop Watches & Clocks -War Department Technical Manual TM 9-1575"

Thanks for all the advice guys! I bought copies of Whitney's book and TM 9-1575 when they were offered for sale here on the IHC website.

I am thinking of using the TM 9-1575 as the basis for a collection of military timepieces, i.e. collect one of each model mentioned in the book.

We have it to download in PDF Format here:

Click For: TM 9-1575 War Department Technical Manual

A worthy idea, Ed. Each time piece in the Technical Manual would be a great collection. Keep us posted as you conduct your search.

One other item of interest in that famous Technical Manual is the Pearless brand WW watchmakers lathe. I have wondered from time to time if any of those lathes are around? Some years ago, an older watchmaker told me about a WWII wounded vet who rec'd one under the GI bill. It was part of his rehab program in training to become a watchmaker. But I never did see that lathe so I don't know if it had Govt. markings on it or not.

Best regards,

Greg