Hi John. Your watch is really nice, but are you sure the emblem on the back is from the WW I period? I ask because the style of the jeweller made/engraved winged propeller emblem on the back appears to be more 1930s or 1940s in style. The winged propeller emblem was first adopted as the Army Air Service emblem. The Air Service was created shortly before the end of the war on May 24, 1918 out of the earlier Aviation Section of the Signal Corps. The winged propeller emblems of the Air Service were designed with 3 to four rows of feathers, with long thin wings, and with the propeller extending well below the wings - close to the full lower blade being below the wings. The style with two rows of feathers, shorter fatter wings and the propeller being more centered came along in the 1930s and early 1940s. It was finally phased out in the early 1950s when the Air Force was trying to project an updated image as they were flying jets by then. Have you been able to find out anything on who was J.M Sorensen and his military record? That would help to nail down the timeframe.
Posts: 872 | Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA | Registered: September 20, 2004
Jim, Thanks for the information... I don't know the history of the watch or the person... I do know however that these watches were made from roughly 1910-1920... I have the tag around here somewhere that was with it where the guy states it was his Grandfathers WW1 watch... I'll see if I can find it but it is just handwritten and wouldn't be something you could bank on... All I can verify is the period Gruen made these and that was 1910-1920... I will add a link that may be helpful to you.... Take Care http://www.pixelp.com/gruen/1904.html
Posts: 98 | Location: Oviedo, Florida USA | Registered: June 13, 2005
In my experiance collecting militaria I have seen wide variations in the styles of insignia made in WWI. Some officers had their wings embroidered for them in France and England as well as in various cities in the U.S. The wings on the enlisted collar disks tended to be slightly different from those used by officers. During WWII there was more uniformity, though variations still exist and are sought after by collectors.
Attached is a link to a representative enlisted man's collar disk from WWI. It looks quite close to the engraving on John's watch, giving alittle artistic licence to the engraver. I don't know if the disk is original or not, but it is of the type used by enlisted men in 1918.
anyone looking to buy original WWI insignia must take care. Like everyting else, they are being faked.
BTW, John. Freemont Nb may have an historical society. If the man was from Freemont Nb, his name may be in there records. On the other hand, it may have been the location of an air training center. If the town had only one jeweler, the historical society may have his records. Ya' never know.
Good luck, Greg
Posts: 1983 | Location: East Lansing, Michigan USA | Registered: November 24, 2002
Hi Greg. Thanks for the nice photo of your enlisted man's collar insignia. It is the exception to the rule of early Air Service insignia, though. It is listed in Campbell as number 20, a rare non-conforming design that was produced overseas. The standard design issued by the Air Service for the enlisted men is like this:
and the standard government issue design collar insignia for officers, such as pilots, was like this:
Anyway, all of that aside a jeweller could have taken liberties with the officially approved designs as was done with your foreign made enlisted insignia, and the one on the back of John's exeptionally nice watch could very well be late a WW I timeframe. My point is only that the design is more like those seen in the inter-war or early WW II eras and that it would be worth trying to nail down the service dates of the original owner to see what the approximate window might be as to when the engraving and applique were done.
Posts: 872 | Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA | Registered: September 20, 2004
