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The British G.S.T.P. pocket watches "Click" to Login or Register 
Life Achievement
Military Expert
Picture of Greg Crockett
posted
I was thinking that a post on the G.S.T.P. (G.S./T.P.) (General Service - Trade Pattern) pocket watches might be of interest.

There appear to be plenty of them around in various brands, dial and case types. Almost all of them appear to be 15 jewel Swiss and American 9 jewel examples.

To the best of my research to date, these watches were purchased "from the trade" starting around 1939 through 1945.

Some will be found with an "S" stamped near the broad arrow. This S stands for "sold out of service". Most likely to the man it was issued to. Other GS/TP watches are found marked "Bravingtons". These were sold by Bravington's after the war as surplus military watches.

Other markings may be found for issue by Commonwealth military forces, Please report any such markings, which I suspect are out there but may be uncommon.

Inside the case, one may observe jewel count and "adjusted" information which may appear to be scratched upon the movement. This may be interesting to report if found.

For each GSTP please note:

A. Brand Name (if any)

B. Serial Number on the case back

c. Other: Case type, jewel count, or whatever you may think notable.

D. Markings: GS/TP, GSTP, S, Bravingtons's, etc

E. Inside movement markings.

Thanks:

Best regards,
Greg
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: East Lansing, Michigan USA | Registered: November 24, 2002
posted
Hey Greg,
I am in a process of repairing ( or learning to repairing...) one of those.
Mine is Cyma, inside case has 2 numbers, 019439, 3081. On the movement 15 jewels, 348668, patented. On the case back GSTP T9274. I know nothing what so ever about this watch. What can you tell me? The balance wheel staff is broken but otherwise it looks like a very well made, rather thin movement...It is surprising that it is not with a shock - resistant jewelling...
Regards.
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Panama City, Florida USA | Registered: November 18, 2005
Life Achievement
Military Expert
Picture of Greg Crockett
posted
Hello Naoki Imaizumi,

Welcome to IHC!

The Cyma brand was one of the better quality GSTP watches, in my opinion. Although all of them appear to have been good.

GSTP watches were issued to British military ground forces in WWII. The number on the outside of the back cover was the issue number, which would have been noted in the pay book of the man it was issued to.

It's interesting to note the lack of a shock resistent balance system. The Germans issued shock resistent Swiss made pocket watches, but not England. The GSTP was more of an economy watch, with a snap back case, instead of screw back, etc.

As you noticed, these watches often have good quality movements. In my opinion, they represent one of the last great bargains in military watches.

Good luck with the balance staff. When you are done, you will have a good quality historical pocket watch.

Best regards,

Greg
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: East Lansing, Michigan USA | Registered: November 24, 2002
posted
Thanks for the very informative input. I am just curious as to why British couldn't come up with their own movement, considering their enormous horological heritage... I would have thought that Smith or others could do it. In any case, I am very impressed with the fine finish and the construction of Cyma movement. I can't wait to have the balance staff replaced... which material house might carry a balance staff for this model? Any thought?Thanks.
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Panama City, Florida USA | Registered: November 18, 2005
posted
By the way, what's the movement number for this particular watch? 3081?
Regards.
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Panama City, Florida USA | Registered: November 18, 2005
Life Achievement
Military Expert
Picture of Greg Crockett
posted
Naoki,

I'm not sure of the caliber No. of your movement. However, if you take an image of the pilar plate w/o the dial, a supply house may be able to figure it out. Further, if you measure the dimensions of the old staff, some supply houses may be able to supply a replacement in that manner as well.

The following supply houses have been of use to me:

Cas-Ker Co. Attn: Material Dept., 2550 Cvic Center Dr., Cincinnati, OH 45231 (513)674-7700

Wm. S. McCaw Co., 1722 Madison Ave., Toledo, OH 43624 (419) 243-3720

Good luck with the staff! Keep us posted of your progress.

Best regards,

Greg
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: East Lansing, Michigan USA | Registered: November 24, 2002
posted
Greg,
Many thanks for your advice. I will try the supply houses that you mentioned...and let you know how it will turn out. I appreciated your help.
Regards.
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Panama City, Florida USA | Registered: November 18, 2005
posted
Hi Greg,

I'll add the details of my 'GSTP' watches here and hopefully keep the ball rolling.
Best regards
John.

No 1.
A. Make: CYMA

B. Case Serial Number: M 91639

c. Other: Chrome Plated Open Face case, 15 Jewel Cyma movement. White enamel Dial, Luminous 'filled' hands, and Luminous numerals at 3/9/12 and marker at 6. Sub sec's at 6.0 position.

D. Markings: G.S.T.P. below 'broad Arrow'.

E. Inside movement markings: CYMA on Winding Wheel, serial No 402370. 15 Jewels. Swiss Made.

Watch No 2
A. Brand Name: CYMA

B. Case Serial Number:069926

c. Other: Chrome Plated Open face case, Enamel Dial with Luminous filled hands, Luminous numerals at 3/9/12 and marker at 6. Sunk Sub sec's at 6.0 position.

D. Markings: GS/TP, with 'S' stamped into base of broad arrow.

E. Inside movement markings: CYMA on winding wheel, Serial 386362. 15 Jewels, Swiss Made.

Watch No 3:
A. Brand Name: DAMAS

B. Serial Number: 47918

c. Other: Nickel open face case, White enamel dial with arabic numerals, open hands (assumed once luminous filled), sub sec's at 6.0 pos.

D. Markings: G.S/T.P, over serial, over broad arrow.

E. Inside movement markings: 'DAMAS' on winding wheel, 15 Jewels, 2x adjustments, Swiss. Lightly gilded movement.

Watch No 4. (Not quite GSTP)!

A. Brand Name: ROLEX

B. Case Serial Number: A20498 (on case back and band)
Inside case back: Rolex Genéve Swiss / "51 Records Universels"

c. Other: Open face, screw bezel and back, possibly nickel. No bezel/ dial/ crystal/hands. Frown
Sub seconds at 6.0 pos.

D. Markings: G.S.Mk II, over 'broad arrow'.

E. Inside movement markings: ROLEX, 15 Rubies, Swiss made. Cal No? on pillar plate adjacent the lever: 540. Serial No 3007450

Would be interested to know what this watch may have been used for.
It's the 'groaner' BTW - the movement is also missing the balance and balance cock, the lever fork is also badly kinked, and there is a small sharp depression on the pillar plate under the 'dial'! which May also account for the missing dial and bezel!
Appears it may have suffered a violent 'incident' with something sharp piercing the dial!!!! Can't imagine anyone robbing it for parts, and the dent isn't typical of a movement being punched out of a case!
J.W.
 
Posts: 1282 | Location: Northern England, United Kingdom | Registered: January 07, 2006
posted
Have I missed everything, or has the post just died?
Regards


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Posts: 699 | Location: Hannover in Germany | Registered: July 23, 2009
posted
Probably just forgotten about Werner, often happens once stuff vanishes of the front page.
It's got bumped to the top again, so maybe more stuff will be added.

I've since gained two or three Cortebert examples and a couple of anonymous types, I'll add details later when I dig them out.

John
 
Posts: 1282 | Location: Northern England, United Kingdom | Registered: January 07, 2006
posted
Well a picture says more than a thousand words...
GSTP (Genral Service Time Piece)Cyma



Regards


My WWW collection is now complete, time to look for new ventures!
 
Posts: 699 | Location: Hannover in Germany | Registered: July 23, 2009
posted
here are my second million words...
GSTP Jaeger Le Coultre Cal 467.
enjoy!







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Posts: 699 | Location: Hannover in Germany | Registered: July 23, 2009
posted
quote:
Would be interested to know what this watch may have been used for.

Here just for you John;
Both Mk I and MK II Watches, G.S. were formally described as: "Keyless, with leather thong: strong lever, 3/4 or full plate type, in metal case, with strong crystal glass, fully luminous", but the G.S., Mk II instrument specifically had a "15 jewelled movement...." and £1978 was expended overseas for some of them, in the Financial Year l935-6. This because "British movements (were) unobtainable". What I believe to be an example from that purchase, 3, has a Swiss Fleurier jewelled lever movement, Another such was a Rlex (fully luminous) similarly engraved 'G.S. Mk II'.
The whole artikel to be found here;
Military Timepieces






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Posts: 699 | Location: Hannover in Germany | Registered: July 23, 2009
posted
Well ladies and Gentlemen I´m running out of words,
what my British Military Pocket Watches are concerned, Ive got this left to say;






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Posts: 699 | Location: Hannover in Germany | Registered: July 23, 2009
posted
Werner
Nice collection of G.S.T.P.'s
 
Posts: 523 | Location: Northern California in the USA | Registered: November 23, 2008
posted
And nicely expressed too Werner.
Many thanks for the link too, page duly saved for reading later.

Best regards

John
 
Posts: 1282 | Location: Northern England, United Kingdom | Registered: January 07, 2006
posted
You´re more than welcome, sir!
glad I could help!
Regards


My WWW collection is now complete, time to look for new ventures!
 
Posts: 699 | Location: Hannover in Germany | Registered: July 23, 2009
posted
Hi, A bit of an old post this one, but still interesting.

In the post by Werner Rosier on the March 26, 2010 at 17:33 photos are shown of a GSTP watch with a black face.

I have the identical watch, except that it has a white dial.

Does anyone, especially Werner, know the manufacturer of this watch.

Mine is GSTP number M85158 and has a "B" stamped inside the back just as Werner's watch has.

Best regards

Dave
 
Posts: 15 | Location: Lincoln in the United Kingdom | Registered: September 22, 2013
posted
In the interests of science, I once removed the dial from a spare one of these and found FEF 40H beneath so it's a Fleurier. My example had a B in a circle and 99 by the balance.

Regards,

Martin
 
Posts: 37 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: September 17, 2010
posted
Hi Martin, Thanks for your post. I am not that knowledgeable the markings on watches. Please can you tell why the FEF 40H marks the watch out as a Fleurier?

My movement does not have a number near the balance, but I am guessing that yours has the small "star" near the edge?

Regards

Dave
 
Posts: 15 | Location: Lincoln in the United Kingdom | Registered: September 22, 2013
posted
Hi,

I'm assuming in line with standard marking practice that FEF == Fabrique d'Ebauche de Fleurier and that the 40H is the calibre of the movement.

Yes my watch has its plates marked with the star symbol, 15 JEWELS, 3 ADJUSTMENTS and SWISS MADE. The marks I mention by the balance are not obvious until you remove the movement from the case so they may be there on your watch too....

Regards,

Martin
 
Posts: 37 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: September 17, 2010
Life Achievement
Military Expert
Picture of Greg Crockett
posted
The mouse w/tail looks like the letter Q to me.

You have the only gold filled GSTP I have ever heard of. Some images of the dial and movement would be of particular interest.
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: East Lansing, Michigan USA | Registered: November 24, 2002
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