Seth-Thomas Number 2 Case Help!

May 31, 2007, 19:00

Lindell V. Riddle

Seth-Thomas Number 2 Case Help!

One of my favorite clocks is the Seth-Thomas Number 2 of which the design went through changes over the years.

In the images below you will see my earliest one, it is from around 1876 production. At some point a decorative part that belongs at the bottom of the case had been lost. Apparently this happened from the huge cast iron weight breaking loose and crashing down through the bottom.

I've had this clock for about seven years now and all that time have hoped it could one day be complete. One of our members, Tom Boone generously offered to do the woodworking. To accomplish that he will need clear pictures of the base taken from the front and both sides.

You see what is missing from my early Number 2...

May 31, 2007, 19:00

Lindell V. Riddle

The bottom-most part of my case is missing!

Do you have a complete one to photograph for us?

May 31, 2007, 19:00

Lindell V. Riddle

Here is the way my early Number 2 should look.

This is an image of my clock in a factory catalog...

May 31, 2007, 19:00

Lindell V. Riddle

Later they added a seconds register but case is unchanged.

And here's a better image from a later ST catalog...

May 31, 2007, 21:15

Rich De Young

Hi Lindell,

Here is a picture of a later version of a ST #2 bottom similar to yours. This one is on ebay now.

Seth Thomas # 2

Another Seth Thomas # 2

May 31, 2007, 21:21

Lindell V. Riddle

Thanks Rich,

Unfortunately, the first example is a reproduction, the second is a far newer clock than mine and therefore it uses a different design on the lower case. We saw those earier today, and that is a start. What we really need to find is an earlier clock of 1870s design like mine. And as I suggested, seeing details of the side view is what we need most of all.

Again, thank you!

Lindell

June 21, 2007, 18:40

Dave Freeman

Here's a picture of my Seth Thomas No. 2. I've owned it for ten years or so,
and apart from when I stop it for our vacations,it's been running strong every
day since I got it.

June 21, 2007, 18:43

Dave Freeman

Here's a closer view of the bottom of my Seth Thomas

June 21, 2007, 18:50

Dave Freeman

Here's a bit more of a side view.

June 21, 2007, 20:19

Lindell V. Riddle

Thanks Dave,

You have a nice, considerably later model. I really appreciate your efforts, but my clock is the somewhat earlier model with a huge cast-iron weight in the back. You'll notice it does not have a seconds-bit either. This clock is early and dates to approximately 1876 production. See the image below for more details.

Thanks to you and anyone else who might be able to help with this.

Lindell

There is an iron weight behind the partition...

June 21, 2007, 23:49

Dave Freeman

Lindell,
Too bad my information didn't help you.

As a point of interest, how old do you think my clock may be? If I were to guess, I'd say it may be around the 1920's, but I've got no records to support my estimate. I'd appreciate your input.

Regards

June 22, 2007, 10:41

Grant Perry

Dave et Al:
The link below is to a good ST#2 date guide. You should be able to narrow the date down using the guide. I assume that your case does not have a stamp on the back?
gp
http://www.clockguy.com/SiteRelated/SiteGraphics/RefGraphics/ST2-IDGuide.pdf

June 23, 2007, 09:38

Dave Freeman

Grant,
Thank you for the wonderful model identification chart. Using it I've been able to determine my clock was made in the 1913-1922 time frame. Next time I take my clock off the wall I'll look to see if there's a plate on the back which matches up my estimate.

June 23, 2007, 13:58

Gary Morgret

Hi Dave
By plate are you refering to the date stamp? You understand if it is there it will be backwards with a letter indicating month of manufacture.
ie. 1922 will be 2291 with A=January B=Febuary

Gary

June 24, 2007, 01:59

Bernhard Schmidt

I´m just curious but does anyone have a picture of the movement. Really nice clock. Haven´t payed attention to it before really.

June 24, 2007, 21:40

Larry Stewart

Lindell,
I think these are the pics you need. This clock has the large weight behind the sliding board and the round terry movment.

Larry

June 24, 2007, 21:41

Larry Stewart

Here's the other pic.

June 25, 2007, 15:08

Lindell V. Riddle

Larry,

That's exactly what we need!

It was great talking with you a few minutes ago. I especially appreciate your willingness to trace the bottom piece, record the dimensions and send that along by mail. This is what our wonderful hobby is about, helping each other.

Thanks a million,

Lindell

June 26, 2007, 07:48

Larry Stewart

Lindell,
The tracing and dimensions are in the mail.

Larry

June 26, 2007, 14:31

Lindell V. Riddle

Thanks again Larry!

In response to Bernhard's question the image below shows the very simple but amazingly reliable movement in our Seth Thomas circa 1876 early Number 2 shown in this topic.

Your comments are invited!

Movement in my Seth Thomas circa 1876 clock...

June 26, 2007, 16:51

Bernhard Schmidt

Yes, like the precision pendulum, suprisingly simple on the first site but truly reliable and accuratly made. Guess that´s something like that according to this movement aswell, isn´t it?
What kind of escapement is it? Graham dead beat?

Really nice Clock, got to get one of those one day.

Thanks for the photo Lindell....

June 26, 2007, 18:22

Lindell V. Riddle

Thanks Bernhard,

In response to your escapement question, I really don't know for sure but probably not. I'm sure someone with more experience than I will enlighten both of us.

I am impressed by how well this old clock functions. The point of this topic is to begin lightly restoring it to being the best it can be. With the help received we are well on the way. The movement will be cleaned and serviced along with a new cable.

We'll keep posting in this topic as it progresses.

Lindell

June 26, 2007, 19:48

Larry Stewart

Lindell,
Here is the so called round Terry movement from my clock. Notice the beat adjustment and the pendulum leader. These items are very similar to the set up on my weight driven ST No. 1 double dial calendar clock. I've owned 1s/2s with the rectangular movement like yours only the mounting method was very much like an OG with the movement on a seat board with vertical support pieces.

Larry

June 26, 2007, 20:15

Lindell V. Riddle

WOW!

That's a great movement Larry, very classy.

Here is another movement almost identical to mine in a slightly later Seth Thomas on eBay right now. It even has an identical board and the same mounting brackets as those in my clock.

That one is claimed to be 1879 and it has a seconds register.

Clock with same board and mounting as mine...

June 29, 2007, 20:28

Lindell V. Riddle

Dear Larry,

Your tracing and measurements arrived today!

We are on the way thanks to everyone's kindness and willingness to help.

Thanks a million,

Lindell

August 02, 2007, 19:09

Lindell V. Riddle

Yesterday afternoon Tom Boone called.

He said the clock case was ready and he would bring it home.

After seven years of ownership my oldest Seth Thomas Number 2 was whole again.

Thanks to Tom Boone for his craftsmanship, to Larry Stewart for his wonderful close-ups and tracings, to Gary Morgret for images of similar clocks he found for us, to Grant Perry, Dave Freeman, Rich DeYoung, Bernhard Schmidt and everyone else who offered assistance or found this topic of interest.

Thank you for your help and for understanding that our mission as serious collectors is to leave these wonderful horological treasures better than we found them, that when we restore a case like this it must be a faithful and accurate restoration to the original specifications.

Accurately restored, the case is once again whole...

August 02, 2007, 19:46

Larry Stewart

Lindell,
The clock looks great! The satisfaction of making a clock whole again is its own reward but posterity will sing your praises if not your name.

Nicely done!!

Larry

August 03, 2007, 06:57

Gary Morgret

Looks like Tom did a very nice job, I have seen some other work he has done and I believe Tom is a very talanted woodworker.

Congratulatios Lindell and I know right where it is hanging.

Gary

March 12, 2009, 16:00

Eddie G. Hines

GREETINGS, SETH THOMAS #2 MOVEMENTS USED DEADBEAT ESCAPEMENTS, PERHAPS THE EARLIER ONES WITOUT A SECONDS BIT HAD RECOIL ESCAPEMENTS.THE SECONDS BIT RUNS OFF OF THE ESCAPE WHEEL ARBOR,IF THE ESCAPEMENT WERE RECOIL THE SECOND HAND WOULD MOVE BACK A BIT WITH EVERY BEAT OF THE CLOCK AND IT WOULD NOT LOOK CORRECT. EDDIE

March 15, 2009, 01:36

Bill Carlson

Good subject and information. I've worked on 3 Seth # 2s and they have all looked like this on pictured below. They bolt mounted to a metal bracket attached to the back wall and the pendulum hung from a hanger on the back of the case and not the movement. I have never seen one this old. Thanks...

February 19, 2012, 22:59

Harry Van Essendelft

I have an old walnut veneer case early No 2 with no seconds bit, no maker name on roman numeral dial. Case in pieces with No glass. No bottom. From all my research this has to be one of the earliest st #2's made.

Can anyone supply photos --both front and side views-- AND dimensions so I can replicate the bottom drop, which is missing? I have excellent woodworking skills and moderate clockmaker skills.

I am new to this forum although I have been a member for a year. So, do I need to supply email address or phone or anything else. Harry

March 08, 2012, 16:25

Lindell V. Riddle

Hello Harry,

Recent health issues have put me way behind and unfortunately delayed my response. But as we discussed a few minutes ago on the phone, it will be my pleasure to help move your restoration forward in any way I can.

To that end, I will trace the operative area of my clock by placing plain paper on the wall and tracing around it which is the method that Larry Stewart employed for me using his clock as a template. I believe that tracing along with the various images in this topic should enable you to properly restore your clock as Tom and I did mine.

Due to the extremely heavy weight they suspended by fragile materials, according to numerous stories in the hobby and trade I believe quite a few of the early S-T clocks were forever-lost due to this sad damage. It is great that today we have the ability share information and encouragement in order to save the survivors.

We all look forward to your "after" pictures my friend.

Best wishes,

Lindell

March 16, 2012, 19:32

Harry Van Essendelft

Lindell: Have you had a chance to do anything with the drawings? I know you said you were busy and I hope to be able to provide some photos within the next few weeks. As I mentioned it is a bit of a mess but I will send what I have.

Thanks,
Harry