I have a clock and a question.

This is what I have written on a card that I keep in the clock:

This clock, a Pequegnat Moncton is from the Penny Station which is now preserved at the Railway Museum in Prince George B.C.

The Penny Stn. was built in 1914 but it burnt down in a 1947 fire. The station from Lindup (also built in 1914) was then moved to Penny. So this clock is not the original clock as that one was lost in the fire but was in the Penny Stn. when it was decommissioned. The station was again moved in 1988 to Prince George Railway & Forestry Museum.

I live in Smithers as does Luis Seguenza who was once an operator/agent at Penny. In 2011 I asked him if he knew who got the clock when the station closed down in 1988. (I believe it was closed down earlier and sat for a few years till the move but as yet cannot pin down a date).

He said that Roger Gaudet, a Trainmaster at the time had gotten the clock. Then he said hmmm... perhaps it was the Kwinitsa clock that Roger had gotten.


Roger had since passed away so I called his son Brian who is still working for CNR out of Prince George.

He told me that yes, his father had gotten a clock and as far as he knew it came from Penny. He was in possession of the clock and we worked out a deal where I bought the clock from him.

Just to verify it's origin I sent a picture of it to Ray Mcinnis who had been an operator at Kwinitsa for many years. Ray was able to verify that it was NOT the clock that had been in the Kwinitsa station.

This information from Luis, Brian and Ray, to me, verifies it as the Penny clock.

I will include pictures but the original Pequegnat dial is underneath the one that you now see on this clock.

I love looking at this clock and wondering how many trains it has seen pass but will eventually donate it to the Prince George Railway Museum so it can again grace it's former home.

The clock, sadly has been re-finished and the wooden bezel was re-mounted a few degrees out of whack but I can live with that.

The paper dial you see on the above picture covers the original Pequegnat metal dial that has been adorned with afternoon numbers 13-24.

I only peeled one section to see what was underneath. There is resistance and you can see glue residue in the photo.

Should I try to remove the paper dial?

Potential issues are firstly removing those brass grommets (any hints?) and removing the glue residue without mucking the whole thing up.

Thoughts?

This is the Penny Station as it sits today in Prince George B.C.

Hi Lorne : Great to see your Moncton and loved the story of how you acquired it. I also have a Moncton. Mine has the original dial (marked Berlin) but it has Roman Numerals and also has the original finish on the case. Re. the refurbishing the dial. First I think you must consider that there is probably a reason why the dial was covered in the first place. That raises the possibility that A) there may be a real ugly on the original dial that you cannot see as yet and B) it is a good dial underneath and you run the risk of removing some of the original paint when you remove the dial. However, If it were mine and considering the history I would want to see those 13-24 red numbers showing.
You should be able to remove the grommets by removing the dial first and then carefully bending back the little clips that are on the back of the grommets.
If possibile determine what type of adhesive is used on the paper dial. If you are lucky it may be hyde or fish glue which you can remove with water. If it is something else you may have a tougher time with it but I would be very leery of just pulling it off cold. You may try heating it with a hair drier (careful) and then try to lift it.
I am sure you will get others jumping in on this one Lorne and maybe there is a better way. I would sure like to see a picture after you get it removed if that is the way you go. John

Lorne,
I too adore looking at the clock as well as you, it is a very beautiful clock.

I am leaning towards John on this one, he has some very valid points. Being that the clock has been refinished I too would be very weary of what condition the original dial is in, but still yet very curious to find out. I too have had these haunting thoughts. If you do decide to have the paper dial removed and run into trouble I might suggest "Martha's Dial House." Either way you decide it is still a very beautiful clock as is.

Good Luck,
Tim

John & Tim, thanks for responding.

If I push lightly on the paper dial there is a crunching sound that indicates to me dried out hide or fish glue as you suggest.

As for why the original dial has the red numbers, I assume some keener operator took it upon himself to spruce up the clock using a stencil, they don't look professionally applied. Penny was in the middle of nowhere and perhaps the project filled in a long winters evening.

The paper dial was probably a later CNR issue after the Grand Trunk Pacific became part of CN, (1918-1923). Perhaps they sent out a kit and you selected the appropriate pieces. The seconds bit is a separate piece glued on to the main dial.

The last statement is however,all speculation and easily refuted as I have a picture of a Moncton (taken in the 70's) that was in the Kiwanga station about 300 miles west of Penny until the mid 1980's. It has the original Roman numeral dial, no adornments.


I am going to do a bit of tender exploration and see how that glue responds to water on a Q-tip.

Well it's all fun and games and good intentions until you realize special equipment may be needed to remove the hands.

I will see if "Ralph" will make a house call tomorrow as I don't want to lug this clock across town.

no special equipment required,just unscrew the little hand nut,and remove the hands by pulling gently on them!! Nice clock,I have a beauty Moncton I am seeking a movement for!! (message to all looking - I would like to buy one ) Good luck with it Lorne !!! They're a lovely clock !!!

Tom called me last night and we had a bit of a conflab regarding Pequegnat and other things, thank you Tom.

I got the hands off and after very carefully removing the brass grommets went and ordered some new ones on ebay. The added thickness of the paper dial didn't leave much "meat" to work with when they were reinstalled by the "24-hour Michelangelo" so were pretty well useless when I was done.

I think what happened is that the Trainmaster came along , saw the red afternoon numbers and asked of the operator "What the h*** were you thinking?" "I want those covered up". and sent him the paper dial.

Whatever glue was used(which was not required as there are 7 screws and 2 grommets holding it in place) can be shifted only by acetone/lacquer thinner. Sadly it also would remove the paint on the dial so it will remain as is.

The red numbers were somewhat more vivid but much of the colour has been sucked up by the back of the paper dial.

So, no new dial, this one is a part of this clocks history and since it will be donated to it's old station value is not a consideration.

I will post some pics after I figure out why my camera went sideways.

Well here it is, it ain't purdy but it is original.

Had he put the 23 beside the 11 (Like the 13-1) rather than beneath it there would be some visual balance.

A bit of paint loss during removal of the paper dial and a layer of glue that cannot be removed.

All in all I am happy with the result.

I will install the new brass grommets on the original dial and mount the paper dial behind it so it won't be lost.

Hi Lorne: Thanks for putting the "after " picture on. I think you have done the correct thing with it. It is what it is. I noticed the original dial is Arabic and does not have "Berlin" on it. I am not sure when that change was made (during or right after WW1) but it is the first Moncton that I have seen without it.

Thanks John, yes, it looks happier this way, like a guy who just got out of his suit and put on "something more comfortable".

I will have a look at rotating that bezel to the proper position, the old screwholes should still be usable.


Regarding the name change from Berlin to Kitchener, this is what wikipedia has to say:

In 1916, a movement began to change the name of the city. It did not have the support of the wider community. A contest was held to choose a new name and the results were ridiculed. When news hit that Britain's Minister of War, Lord Kitchener, was killed in action off the Orkney Islands, his name was put forward as a possible replacement, and the whole matter was put up to referendum.

The referendum itself did not give Berlin residents the option of maintaining the status quo, and anybody who spoke up against this process was viewed with suspicion. According to an article from the National Archives of Canada,[1] "Those citizens who supported the status quo were immediately perceived, by those who wanted change, as being unpatriotic and sympathizers with the enemy. Violence, riots and intimidation, often instigated by imperialistic members of the 118th Battalion, were not uncommon in the months leading up to the May 1916 referendum on the issue."

Unable to oppose the change, the community stayed home. Only 892 people bothered to vote (Berlin's population at the time was over 15,000) and of those, just 346 were enough to change the name of the city to that of Kitchener. Following the referendum, a petition of 2,000 names was sent to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to try to stop the process, but they were turned down.

A note to explain why there are still guys around who remember old station clocks.

The Grand Trunk Pacific and Canadian Northern Railways ran pretty well side by side from Edmonton, thru Jasper and diverged at Redpass Junction, about 45 miles west of Jasper.

When they went bankrupt and CNR was formed (1918-1923) the CNoR to Vancouver became the mainline and the GTP to Prince Rupert was relegated to secondary mainline status and there languished for the next almost 60 years.

I hired out in Jasper in 1970 and the mainline was pretty well all CTC so all of the intermediate stations had been taken out of service.

The line from Redpass to Rupert was still in the dark ages using train orders with operators working at the various intermediate stations.

I think it was one of the few lines in North America still running on train orders. I moved up to Smithers in 1977 and in retrospect consider myself fortunate to have had the opportunity to work in train order territory.

This lasted until about 1985 as the line had been up-graded for the coming coal trains and CTC was installed making the intermediate stations and train orders a thing of the past.

It was old time railroading and I loved it.

Hi Lorne: Thanks for the info re. Berlin/Kitchener. My youngest son is a fireman in Waterloo (sister city to Kitchener) and He occasionally brings me a Pequegnat for some of the guys at the Hall that needs them serviced. I also restored a Pequegnat for the Fire Dept. that hung in the old main stn. in Waterloo. Be well.

Well done Lorne,
Just a tidbit...on "wallowed or stripped" old screw holes I have found installing a wooden toothpick into the hole works wonders in solving the problem.
Very interesting clock!!