Just saw this on EBay..

Ball Clock

Charlie

If any of you members plan on bidding on this clock they should e-mail the seller and ask for a picture of the label inside the clock. There should be a "Ball" label on the inside backboard behind the pendulum. This label is pictured in Tran's Volume 3 of American Clocks on page 225. Without that label I would be very wary as there are numerous fake Ball Clocks out there.

William Mittelstadt

Everyone,

William is entirely correct, anyone can have a "Seth Thomas" or other dial redone to say "Ball Watch Company" and thereby fool the unsuspecting. That being said, the one in the auction has "the look" of being the correct dial and hands, similar to those found on some "Official RR Standard" Ball Watches. Unfortunately the dial is somewhat faded as if it were exposed to sunlight or having been "over-cleaned" at some point.

On the issue of labels, something a bit peculiar needs to be realized about these. Much of the time Ball put his label over top of the manufacturer's label. For that reason some genuine clocks are assumed to have been worked over and altered when they have not. And I sure don't have to tell you guys a lot of the labels have also been lost over the years. William is right in that having the label is a real plus.

The clock in the auction is the same design as some I've seen and believe to be genuine. At least part of the story in the auction has "the ring of truth" about it. All too often Railway Employees were given the RR Station clock when they retire, this practice continues even today. It is in my view a shame as history is then forever lost.

Some questions are in order here, so I wrote to the seller and I'll let you all know if we receive a response. I'd also venture the clock in the auction is somewhat older than the seller believes. Perhaps some of this and the 14" diameter dial in the picture below will be of help those considering such a purchase.

This "Ball Watch Company" Regulator once timed the Erie Railroad...

Lindell is a little more optimistic than I. This "Ball Regulator" is in essenace a more common Seth Thomas school house clock with which if you change dial, you more than double it's worth. All bogus clocks and watches are made to look correct and unsuspecting. That is the seller's objective to deceive. This is the reason to do your "homework" and investigate before spending your hard earned money. This clock may very well be 100% correct but besure before you bid. It is far better to over spend on a geniune specimen that get a deal on a fake. All I am saying if it dosen't have the provedence of a correct label it is far better to wait and get one with the right label even if it costs more. We all know the example of an expensive clock or watch and it is one you can't sell. William Mittelstadt

William Mittelstadt

William,

Not only is your advice well-taken, it is right in line with my own practice. I'll say it again... "William is entirely correct, anyone can have a "Seth Thomas" or other dial redone to say "Ball Watch Company" and thereby fool the unsuspecting."

That's why I posted a dial on one we know is real. You learn early-on in collecting that much of this stuff carries a description of what the seller WISHES it were rather than what it really is!

After all, more than anything they wish to end up with your money!

Lindell

EVERYONE,

EARLIER TODAY I E-MAILED THE SELLER. YOU'LL SEE THE RESPONSE WHICH ARRIVED A FEW MINUTES AGO APPEARING BELOW MY QUESTION.

FORM YOUR OWN OPINION FROM WHAT WE KNOW AND FROM HIS RESPONSE. I EDITED ONLY THE SELLER'S PRIVATE E-MAIL ADDRESS...

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From: southbend@adelphia.net
Date: Mon Sep 15, 2003 15:34:49 US/Eastern
To: southbend@adelphia.net
Subject: Question for seller -- Item #2192069929

Hello,

Could you tell me what if anything in the way of a paper label might remain either inside or on the back of this clock. Also do you have anything to show the history of the clock being in a particular Railway Station? Photographs, written documentation or anything else would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance for your courtesy.

Sincerely,


Lindell V. Riddle, President
NAWCC Internet Horology Chapter 185
National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors

NAWCC Life Member Number 253-150074
Member of Chapters 6, 10, 28, 37, 62, 168, 174 and 185
Chapter 185 is proud to Co-Host NAWCC North-Coast Regional March 12-14

IHC: http://www.nawcc-ihc.org/

eMail: nawcc-ihc@adelphia.net

Phone: (440) 461-0167


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Answer from seller -- Item #2192069929


From: ---------@aol.com
Date: Mon Sep 15, 2003 19:37:17 US/Eastern
To: southbend@adelphia.net
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #2192069929

Lindell - there is a label inside but not on the back on the case.  Actually, it looks like there were two labels, the one on the bottom was the instructions for using a regulator and the top label (almost looks like it was pasted on top of the bottom label) is very illedgible.  As far as documentation, I am not going to go through that amount of trouble as I am a very busy person.  What I can do is find out what station it was in and where.   Thanks for your interest in this item.   Tom

P.S.  from the e-mails I have been receiving, this appears to be a rare clock.  In my opinion (and I am not a clock expert nor collector) it just looks like a simple, cheaper regulator and not as ornate as some of the ones I have seen.



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I have a similar one with the same type of markings. I will post mine tommorrow.

Who knows?

Mine is in rough condition and I doubt anyone would have gone to the trouble of faking it.

I hope this guy is for real.

Jeff

Jeff,

You're right, what the seller describes has that "ring of truth" about it. I'd urge everyone to re-read the second and third paragraphs of what I posted above...

"On the issue of labels, something a bit peculiar needs to be realized about these. Much of the time Ball put his label over top of the manufacturer's label. For that reason some genuine clocks are assumed to have been worked over and altered when they have not. And I sure don't have to tell you guys a lot of the labels have also been lost over the years. William is right in that having the label is a real plus.

The clock in the auction is the same design as some I've seen and believe to be genuine. At least part of the story in the auction has "the ring of truth" about it. All too often Railway Employees were given the RR Station clock when they retire, this practice continues even today. It is in my view a shame as history is then forever lost."

The also seller says in his eMail to me...

"What I can do is find out what station it was in and where."

Where I live in Northern Ohio there is an intense interest in everything "Webb C. Ball" related and some of us have been doing a fair amount of homework. The clock in the auction has the "look" and several points in it's favor. The seller may have the means to check it further. It is also to the seller's credit he freely admits the one he's offering looks ordinary.

Like I said, I've seen a few just like it that were correct. I'd bet Mr. Ball handed out a lot of them! He was such an amazing merchandiser.

Lindell