Anyone have any info on this? It's the first one I've ever seen.

Hamilton made a few Illinois and Howard watches to retain their ownership of the brand, using versions of their 980 movment. Here is another example of a Hamilton-Illinois 980 ---

The movement in question is probably as described above, although the plate engraving is different to that on the two known examples illustrated here.

We really here need Rene´Rondeau's expertise on this one.

Here is the second Hamilton-Illinois 980, again the engraving is not the same as the one at top ---

The watch in the original posting is correct. Hamilton used a variety of cases to house the Illinois 980 movement, including the 14K gold Pierre case. I have seen one other in a Pierre case, but do not recall the serial number of the movement. Somewhere I think have the production figures for the Pierre cased Illinois 980 and production dates. Will Roseman can probably add more info.

I'm sure the case is the correct one. But look at the engraving quality, and the plate finish - it is very different to the known examples.

DM

My records show 3 different runs or blocks of Illinois 980 movements:

W001 to W050 in 1942
W051 to W550 in 1946 and 1947
W551 to W1050 in 1947 and 1948

So the watch in the original posting is from the first run in 1942 and the others shown are from the later runs after the war. This could account for the difference in appearance.

Also, Hamilton cased 5 Howard 980 movements in 14K Pierre case in 1942, so that fits well with the Illinois 980 movement above fitted in the 14K Pierre case in 1942.

Hope this helps.

Bryan's post raises a new question. These movements were made and cased in the 1940's, but they've shown up in the Pierre, which was only listed in the 1936 catalog, didn't sell very well (see Will Roseman's comments), and is rarely seen today (only five on Ebay in the last 5 or 6 years). Seems rather strange to me.

Thomas,

Not so strange if you consider the timing. 1942, all Hamilton watch production has been dedicated to the war effort. They resorted to some fairly drastic methods to keep at least a few watches available for the civilian market, notably those recased, obsolete, old-stock 986 Cushions.

The key to the use of the Pierre case would seem to be exactly what you said. When released in 1936, it didn't sell very well... thus there may well have been cases left over, or returned for credit from dealer stock, so by re-using old cases, they wouldn't be violating the War Production Board's mandates (or their patriotic duty) by dedicating resources to civilian production. From a marketing standpoint, there also wouldn't be a popular Hamilton model out there simultaneously to confuse the issue.

Even when you throw in the Howard 980s, you're still only talking about a bare handful of watches.

The situation was not much better in 1946, as there was a rush by consumers to "catch up" on purchases that they had foregone during the war. Watch companies faced all sorts of delays and problems associated with re-tooling factories and trying to meet the demand posed by millions of returning servicemen. It seems reasonable to me that they would have tried to sell anything that they could lay their hands on to meet the pent-up demand, including using whatever old-stock was available.

For what it's worth,

Cary

For a badly battered and possibly fatally injured case it is sure attracting a lot of attention and bids - which amazes me since no matter how rare was an item, I just would not spend on something in really poor or damaged condition, needing major restoration.

DM

Dan,

I don't think the case is fatally flawed as much as it's dirty. A good jeweler could have it in good order in no time. I've seen miracles performed on Piping Rock cases, among others.

Cary

I do not have copies of the Illinois dials, but here are the Howard dials.

An the other