16s 19 Jewel Bunn model 11 or 14?

March 14, 2009, 04:03

David Abbe

Opinion on the s/n 4598147 16s Illinois Bunn movement pictured, please. I have been looking at these things way way too long, I need new eyes to look for me. Is this a model 11 or model 14?

(Hint the Model 14 may have 1 less barrel bridge plate screw.)

March 14, 2009, 09:09

Steve Middlesworth

I have not found that plate screw to exist in any of my model 11's. Go to this discussion (first 19 jewel Bunn) and you will see it isn't there. That screw would have to be right in the middle of the lettering on the barrel bridge.

Steve

March 14, 2009, 14:35

David Abbe

Steve, I agree with you, after checking all of my movements of that range and then thinking it over, there is no reason for an extra plate screw there anyway. If it were anybody but Townsend doing this drawing I would think it was a practical joke.

March 19, 2009, 12:51

Lindell V. Riddle

Dave and Steve,

The "extra-screw" may turn out to exist only as an error on one drawing. Personally, I never cared for or put much stock in drawings for anything depicted after the time when photographs became readily available. Colonel Townsend did some remarkable work but I'll rely on photographs whenever possible.

Now, ask yourselves this question...

"What makes a Model 14 a Model 14 and sets it aside from previous models?"

When you get down to the bottom line, the response to that question is really all that matters. My impression from Dave's watch is that the folks in Springfield toyed with the 60-Hour feature and built 19-Jewel Bunns with that feature that do not specifically carry "60-Hour" markings. Just look at the similarly numbered Sangamo Specials for additional confirmation of that theory. Finding an "Unmarked 60-Hour" in Sangamo Specials is not in any way unusual, so why should it be such an event in the 19-Jewel Bunns or for that matter in 21 or 23-Jewel Bunn Specials? We find unusual Illinois watch movements and "mixed runs" with more than one variant are the rule more often than the exception.

Perhaps calling Dave's 19-Jewel an "Unmarked 60-Hour" is the appropriate way to go.

At least that is my take on it.

Be well my friends,

Lindell

March 26, 2009, 19:32

Steve Middlesworth

I agree with the points taken by Lindell. In 1924 the evolution of the 60 Hour mainspring began. Why they chose to not mark the Sangamo Model 13's is anyones guess. The 23 Jewel Model 14's (60 Hour) were the first to be produced at serial #4492001 and was the last run of 1924 and into the first run of 1925 according to the Meggars Blue book list of serial numbers. Next was the 21 jewel Model 14 which started at serial number 4564001 followed by the first 19 jewel Model 14 which started at 4598001.

I own Type I, 4598695 which was in the same run of 1000 (as Daves) and is a "marked" Type I 60 Hour. Supposedly there were 1100 of these Type I 19 Jewel 60 Hour movements (Bunn Special Movements). I also own 4726079 which was in a mixed run of 200 with the Type II and must have been evenly divided to create the remaining missing 100 units to amount to 1100 total.

It was interesting to find an unmarked 19 jewel 60 Hour as the Sangamos started out and it makes me wonder how many were done this way. I now know that I will pay closer attention searching for 19 jewel Bunn models than I have in the past. I know now I never should have let Dave's escape me.

Steve