WWT Shows CLICK TO: Join and Support Internet Horology Club 185™ IHC185™ Forums

• Check Out Our... •
• TWO Book Offer! •
Go
New Topic
Find-Or-Search
Notify
Tools
Reply to Post
  
Illinois Dial + Movement combinations "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1918 Illinois grade 167 correct dial - Illinois Blue Book states: White glass enamel or silvered metal dial

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1918 Illinois grade 167 movement serial number 5558134

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1894 Illinois 18S Grade 65S PL correct dial - Source states: Double Sunk hard or glass enamel dial marked "Illinois Watch Co"

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1894 Illinois 18S grade 65S movement serial number 1227502

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1915 Illinois 21J Sangamo Special correct dial - Source States: Double sunk glass enamel Arabic numeral dial

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1915 Illinois 21J Sangamo Special movement serial number 2790456

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1927 J. Englel & Co. Baltimore Thirtieth Anniversary catalog

6 Position 60 Hour Sangamo Special correct dial

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1927 J. Englel & Co. Baltimore Thirtieth Anniversary catalog

9 adjustment 6 position 60 hour Illinois Bunn Special correct dial

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
Lower half

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1923 19J adj3p Illinois correct dial - Source States: Double sunk glass enamel dial

Note the red dot dial to distinguish this commercial grade watch, typically referred to as a Trolley Watch, from the Rail Road grade watches of the era.

Somewhere in this time frame, the seconds register also became much larger in diameter than earlier models. It will take a few examples to narrow down the transition period and which models this larger seconds section dial belong to. This example has the smaller seconds register. See the 305 further down to see an example of the larger seconds register.

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
movement serial number 4319257

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1903 Illinois Getty Model 5 Grade 176 correct dial - Source States: Double sunk glass enamel dial

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
movement serial number 1678679

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
Illinois 4 foot dial - These dials were released in the transition era from model 5 Getty to model 6 movements. The extra foot could be cut to fit either the model 5 or the model 6 movement. This one is cut to fit a Getty model 5.

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
back side

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1920 18S 17J adj3p grade 89 Illinois correct dial - Source states: Double sunk glass or hard enamel dial marked "Illinois Watch Co"

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
Movement serial number 3774915

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1920 16S 17J adj Illinois grade 305 correct dial - source states: Double sunk glass enamel dial

This 305 has the much larger seconds bit... it comes almost all the way to the center hole.

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
Movement serial number 3757289

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1922 Illinois Bunn Special model 9 21J adj6p correct dial - source states: Double sunk glass enamel or sunk seconds or silvered metal bold arabic numeral dial

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
movement serial number 4038924

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1902 Illinois model 5 1 of 1300 grade 183 16J unadjusted, mixed hands, correct dial - source states: Double sunk glass enamel dial

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
movement serial number 1611397

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
If you like the idea of this project, please add examples of your own.

This is all about getting it right. You are not going to hurt my feelings if I've made a mistake above that needs to be corrected... or if you have additional information I can add to certain post to improve the information.

Probably best to email me direct rather than clutter the entries below with corrections... but either method is perfectly fine.

If we put the production date, Illinois, model and grade, plus the words "correct dial"... it will pop on any search for a correct dial with matching parameters.

My hope is that with enough entries... we can gather enough examples to define where the cut offs are for a few things like:
- red dot dial start and stop
- various examples of "white enamel dials" and what models they are found on
- dial options prior to the red dot dials
- script/curved/straight line Illinois signatures
- Arrows in/Arrows out/half circles/diamonds...

Some of these questions have already been answered in other post... I just need a bit of time to go find them... Things like... the straight line signature changed to a curved signature in either 1914 or 1917, depending on which post you read and believe.

I'm going to reserve the next entry space for consolidated notes that I'm able to glean from other post and comments further down in this post as it gains entries.

Happy Hunting, Paul-T
 
IHC Member 1736
posted
Reserved for collective notes

Link to several RR dial examples: https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...3967177/m/1333931587

This discussion figures the signature changed from straight line to curved in 1917: https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...6047761/m/9666069502
 
IHC Life Member
Picture of Ethan Lipsig
posted
Paul, I commend your effort. Make sure that your "correct dial" designations don't imply that the dial shown is the only correct one. That generally isn't the case.
 
IHC Member 1736
posted
Ethan brings up an excellent point. During the pre-factory cased years... movements were purchased at or from a distributor. A jeweler, mercantile, your local inspector...

Case, dial and hand combinations could be chosen right there at the counter. Most conform to generally accepted conventions. I'm hoping that some of these will become more apparent as known examples continue to be added to this thread.

Things like, thin spade hands go with small Arabic numerals and bold spade hands go with bold Arabic numerals.

The long thin spades with a distinct waist are correct for early 18S Roman Numeral dials...

I'm hoping Buster and some others will offer up some examples of correct Gothic dial and hand combinations to help us isolate the years and models those are correct to.

The dial, hand and movement combinations demonstrated in the Blue Hampden book have been assimilated from known examples believed to be correct. These are not hard and fast rules... but more a process of data stacking.

You can email photos of watches or scans of catalogs to me for entry if you don't want to spend the time cropping them and building the narratives.
 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1902 Illinois Sangamo correct dial - source states: Double-sunk glass enamel Gothic style Arabic numeral dial marked "Illinois Watch Co." in Old English

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
Movement serial number 1451890. 1 of 1,000 total in grade. Model 4 Sangamo Getty 21RJ-HN4L-T6PI-RRG
Ruby jewels in gold settings, gold balance screws, polished gold train wheels and rounded spokes, patent regulator. Gold inlaid ribbon (second) pattern, damaskeened nickle black filled engraving.
This watch is one of a few "pink" versions within this grade.

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
1920 Great Northern Special, red dot, large seconds, curved signature. Source simply says: Double sunk glass enamel dial

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...853936487#3853936487

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
Movement

 
IHC Member 1736
posted
18S Illinois Bunn - Bunn Special correct dial and movement combinations.

Compliments of the late Ed Parsons

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...1029912/m/4753958877
 
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


©2002-2023 Internet Horology Club 185™ - Lindell V. Riddle President - All Rights Reserved Worldwide

Internet Horology Club 185™ is the "Family-Friendly" place for Watch and Clock Collectors