Thanks for the dial pic.... the markers around the seconds bit is an unusual feature...


The dial Lindell shows would be a Gothic... this dial was also made with "montgomery" minute markers...

This is a later watch, with 24 hour markers... busy isn't it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4903538327


The Box on Fred's example gives a Heavy Arabic dial notation...

I will try to scan some things tonite...

and yes, that is how they should fit to the pillar plate


Fred,
Megger's 1985 Illinois book...

I would like to know if all the Sangamo Specials discussed here have the same case. Mine has a screw back, and a hinged bezel. Was that the standard case?

Jerry Freedman

Jerry,

I believe the screw-back, hinged bezel case design you see on both Fred's and my watch is typical of this era Sangamo Specials.

The case on Fred's amazing boxed example and the one housing mine from the same run are not only identical, they are actually close in numbers as well. Interestingly, Fred's movement is 3862909 and mine is 3863829 so my movement number a bit is higher than his. Looking at the cases, my 5678804 is lower than Fred's 5678935 which fits with how the cases were evidently more often than not last in, first out from the shelf or bin. That's something perhaps we should consider.

Below, movement 3863829 and case number 5678804 close...

"Hail to the Chief(s)" !!

Jerry,

It seems the model 10 was specific to this style case....

The earliest were not marked "sangamo special", but had only "patented bow and crown" it seems all were made by wadsworth

All seem to be hinge bezel, screw back

There are variations on the style of crown seen with earlier ones having a 'flat base'.... i don't know if i have an image of this type of crown, but they do exist.

as i mentioned above one of the selling features of the watch was its thin design.

Fred,

Again I hope you can forgive me for 'hijacking' this thread...
It really should be for showcasing your wonderful boxed example..
but this is also an educational tool...

Maybe some of the posts can be moved to a new topic...... (and the thread is getting non dialup friendly!!!)

Anyway... onward...

Here is a page from the December 1923 hardback material catalog showing dials..

Here is a second page, showing the Heavy Arabic dial...


Study these....

Note the designation on the 17 size dials....

Now..

Here are two ads from original magazines, sorry the quality is not better, but these are oolldd!!!

the file size is large, so i will send you to them by clicking the links......

Note this is a sunk seconds dial.. no rr track

JANUARY 1923 AD

This I believe to be the introductory ad for the model 13 sangamo... or for this case anyway

SEPTEMBER 1925 SANGAMO INTRO

Guys,

This has been an interesting thread. I'll leave it up to you guys about the dials, but here is a shot under the dial of my Sangamo Special as I cleaned it few weeks ago. Very nice finish on the motion works side which of course would only be viewed by the watch repair guys.

BTW when I bought this watch it was early in my watch career and clearly I did not do my homework. Not only did I get the wrong size dial (16 on a 17 size), but the wrong crown and bow too, but at least it is on the proper marked Sangamo Special case. I learned a big lesson.



Rob

I sent my order for 2 dozen Illinois dials to the factory a few weeks ago. Wonder what's holding it up?

Fred, that's a fine looking Indian chief you have there.

really poor condition example,
but

17 size, heavy arabic dial.....

of course, bow and crown are long gone...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3939&item=4904200707&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10319&item=4903538327&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Hey Guys,
Is this sangamo special mentioned by Terry earlier in this thread all correct?

And . . . is it the Shugart's * * * version ??

it is a "marked" 60 hour movement, approx 2,200 production

"all correct"... would not say without seeing a pic of the dial in the watch with the front bezel open.... would take away doubts with that...

"original"... depends on above, and then only to 85-90% certainty

Hey Guys,
The same seller who has the sangamo special up for auction also has this 992B watch up for auction. What say you.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10319&item=4903542574

I believe this case is one of the Traffic Special cases which were gold filled and used in the mid 30's. It looks just like the model 16 case, but the model 16 is rolled gold. The traffic special cases had no prefix letters only numbers. The case would not be "correct" for a 992B. The dial looks more like a mainliner style dial which would not be appropriate for a 992B. Others may have more feedback for you.

Rob

rob is correct,
seller has closely cropped the image in the area where "pre B" screw marks may be.

but.... some info may come forward in the future that may identify some 'other' 992B cases.... that project is still in the works..

so for now.. look for the other set of screw marks....

PS... these few posts may be 'better' in the pitfalls section... jmho...