Hi all,
Just purchased a Hampden Wm.McKinley OF 21j 16s
movement marked adjusted ser# 1587738. Can anyone tell me production date and numbers made,rarity, what the adj were, RR grade etc. I will post pics when I receive it.
Thanks,
Bill

There were about 11,000 of this variantion that was produced in 1901. Since this was made in the 1900-1910 dates it is only marked "adjusted" but the later ones were marked "adjusted 5 positions" to meet the RR requirements were still evolving. The McKinley, 105(basically the same as the McKinley) were definitely RR approved. For RR use in the 16 size Hampden had the Railway-19J, McKinley/105/New Railway(later)-21j and 104/Special Railway(later)-23j. I also have few doubts that some of the 16s 17j movements would have been RR approved when 17j grades were allowed. Hampden 16s during this time frame came in two basic styles, the earlier bridge movement and the later 3/4 plate movement. Some that are extremely "politically correct" want you to refer to the as the 4th and 5th model, not being overly PC I call them bridge and 3/4 movements.

Hi Claude,
I thought I read in an earlier post that I can not seem to locate, about a watch Lindell had, and something about an unknown run, the serial numbers if I recall ???? are quite close to mine, within a hundred or so ???? are you familiar with the post I am referring to ?
Thanks,
Bill

With no production records it would not be unusual to piece a run together with additional information which was the case with my 15j box hinge Hampden. In the Hampden book there is a McKinley listed at 1,587,994, less than 300 from your sn that shows it to be 16s, 21j, nickel 4th model adjusted Wm McKinley. That run continues up to 1,588,975 but those were hunters and had one 17j tossed in. Lindell might be able to toss in other information but without the production records trying to figure out their run strategy would be good guesses at best. Unless yours is a model 3, then yours might be an undocumented early run model 4.

Claude,
Thanks for all the input.
I found the post I was talking about, it was from 2007 in the search heading under Hampden 21j. Lindell apparently has a Wm.McKinley OF 21j marked adjusted Mdl4 (ON4L) and is apparently from a run that was unknown at the time, with approx 300 made. I would sure like my watch to be part of that run. My ser# being just 117 out from his.
Maybe Lindell would chime in and shed some hopeful light for me.
Thanks again,
Bill

Makes sense since the one in the Hampden book does not state if it is hunter or open face, the one before it is open face but 17j and the one before that is 17j but no mention of movement type. It appears all the collectors that were selling their watches have mostly done so since the pickings of late on ebay have been a bit sparse. I thought it was just me but I asked a couple of other collectors and they agreed, guess the good times of good watches at very good prices had to end some time.

Bill,
You may want to report your watch to the Hampden online database and Robert Schussel. The database suggest that Lindells' watch, 1587621, and yours are from a run of 300 17J. At the beginning of the thread in 2007, Scarce and not so scarce 16 size 21 jewel Hampdens, Robert S. suggest that a WM. McKinley ON4L-ADJ had a production of 50. That number may change because your watch seems to be the first reported in the 15877XX range. Nice find on what appears to be a rare variant.
RR

I once brought up the concept of data-mining to some of the owners of the online databases and I was told there was no use because people were somewhat stupid and didn't know an OF from a HC etc and so on. There are pockets of people that collect serial numbers but that information is not always shared or easy to see and there are thousands of people buy/selling that are finding these online databases and using them, if you asked a few questions about the movement/watch then one could start to fill in the gaps especially for for brands where most if not all the production records are gone. Most collectors really don't like sharing their serial numbers (not sure why that is) but you could make a simple only database and asked are you willing to help? if so you could show a few simple pictures, hunter, sidewinder (Hunter) or openface of a OF in a hunter case and ask them to select what is their movement. Ask what the sn is, since they have plugged it in not sure why they would not share and ask to include details etc. Not all would do it but probably more 1/3-1/2 would. I even offered to check into the back end progamming but again I was considered a nut case. With all the people who have watches that are interesting but not recorded some of the missing parts could be filled in a lot faster. I had thought of creating one of my own for Hampden but selecting important items and recording them and even leaving the option so show recorded data from one serial to another.
I received another Deuber 18s 15j hunter, that is labeled Deuber Watch Co on the dial and movement with the Teske regulator. It is in a nice green gold hunter case with rose gold inserts, 20yr case with some unknown maker that I will have to track down. Well worth the 80+ship that I paid for it, especially since the case is brass free, does need a crown and a new staff though. I will post pictures. I tend to collect mostly Elgins but I won't pass a Hampden by and have more than a couple of them in my collection.

Thanks all for sharing your input and knowledge, I will wait until I get this watch in my hot little hands and make sure it is, what it is supposed to be before I get excited. I will then contact R.S. and advise him of my find, from what you are saying, is he putting together a Hampden database ? Claude like you I am mainly going after Elgins, but have several RR of all types, and others. I just wish I had more knowledge about the repairing of watches and my eyes were a little better. I know slightly more than open faced and hunter cased, but my knowledge is really quite limited, and I have to admit I am like an old dog, but slowly pick up tidbits here and there.
Thanks again for all the help on this and all the watches I have inquired about over the past couple of years, just wish my input was generally more knowledgeable, rather than always taking info.
Another great reason for belonging to IHC 185.
Thanks all,
Bill

Bill you never need apoligize for being a watch collector, sometimes I learn as much from the questions as I do from the answers. On questions I will take the time to look something up that normally I wouldn't look up so I learn that way. I try to pick up what I read in responses although sometimes things are over my head.

Another thing about the Wm. McKinley's, in both model 4 & 5, I'm pretty sure all the 21 jewel are RR grade, the 17jewel are mostly non-RR grade, although some 17J were supposed to have been made in railroad grade.Has anyone seen one?I've only seen them in pendant set.McKinley's are a nice watch, like most Hampdens, but underrated.

The McKinley and the 107 are listed as RRG, I have to check my McKinley 17j but if my memory is correct it is LS. They show 2,070,xxx-2,072,xxx so that is at least 2,000 made.

I finally received this watch today, and here are the pics as stated.
Thanks,
Bill

Hopefully this does run into the same series as Lindell's. It is kind of nice to pick up the odd hard to find/rare one.
Don't you love the dials on these hampdens ???

mvmt

mvmt 2

Lindell or Bob,
Does this watch fit into the same category as Lindells, or is it something else ????
My photographs are not of the same quality as Lindell's and the serial numbers are that 117 off, but I would be interested to know if there was more to this run, and what they were, from the educated guess standpoint, seeing as records are somewhat hazy.
Thanks,
Bill

Lindell,
Thanks for the added input and the call pertaining to this watch.
The answer to your question is "Yes".
I see now that there will unlikely be a definitive answer to the watch, as to how many, but will have to wait and see.
Hopefully the ones we have are a mix of 50 or so, and that would make it quite rare, at least in my books.
Thanks again,
Bill

I just recently picked up a pretty nice 16S 21J 4th model OF Wm.McKinley.This one I'm sure is more common than the ones Bill and Lindell have.It's fully marked (double roller, 5 positions).SN 2466951.It's a nice near mint-looking movement, but needs a staff.I'm glad to get this one, to go along with the 5th model one I already had......Ted.