What if you find a serial number to a watch that does not exist in any serial number information for that company?

What if it matches a known watch exactly, and the only problem is, that there is no indication of any being made with this lower number?

What if you find 2 of them, and their the same company, and one is an 18's and the other is a really small one? supposed to be very collectable, and has a number HIGHER than known to exist in this named watch, or even the company?

I found two watches like this, and will post it later today when I get up, until then, you tell me if this ever happens.

I did check them both and they, sure enough, are in "The Book" and are identical right down to the last screw.

So exciting!

We will either have to change the serial number information databases for this company, or add another FAKE to a long list of them.

See you soon......................

Look on page 242 at the Oriental First!

Is it a Hampden? you tell me, but first look on page 242 at the Oriental in the "The Book" it's the same.
The name on the watch is John T Fox in Rochester NY and he was a jeweler!
I looked him up and the only difference is, that the auction has him moved to another state later on, and I find him still listed in a directory in NY much later when he was 75 yrs old. Born in 1825

Interesting if nothing else.

Tell me what you think.

SN 54579

The ONLY difference I see is the second round item to the left of where you wind this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&ss...0119690308&rd=1&rd=1

The reason the number is too low for a Hampden is that this is a product of the New York Watch Co, in Springfield, Mass. This was a predecessor to Hampden.

The dial to the above watch is below and has Hampden dial.

I had it in my head that The New York Watch Co was AFTER the Hampden! DARN!


So is that the same deal with the other one too?

Even if it has the Hampden trademark on the movement, and a number higher than any known to be Hampdens?

I will post a picture

I always get a kick out of the description words some of these sellers use when trying to explain a watch. I was trying to think back on what I called them when I first started?? LOL

This link Sheila posted says "GUTS" for the movement. Also funny how a lot of people associate them with human parts such as face neck body. Well I know it has nothing to do with this thread but I got a laugh this morning. Guts just does not give you a good visionary of the watch.

Makes sense to me, Robert. If you call the dial the 'face', then why NOT call the works the 'guts'?

Regards! Mark

Sheila, Nice posting, I think you the seller is offering a vastly over-priced series 1 Hampden. It was evidently numbered as a "special" series as a private label by assigning the S/N below the the Hampden Numbering system. Unfortunately the "Deuber CANTON" case came to life long long after this watch was "born, and in my opinion was modified with a hole punch to accept this movement. It might approach about 1/2 what the seller is asking with an original case. Notice so far there are no takers. I think I will offer a $100.00 and see what Happens. Just my opinion tho.

After checking further I agree that the new york watch co would be a likely maker. It is unfortunate that it lacks the "hidden key" type case.

Sheila, I guess I owe you a "thank you". After I advised the seller what I thought about this watch, I offered them a more fair negotiable price. The seller then countered with a most acceptable price and apologies for their original description of this piece.

So now I have a watch which could easily be part of the first "Hampden inventory" my 3-generations removed cousin James Abbe became part owner of (pg 9 col 2; "From Springfield to Moscow: the Complete Deuber Hampden Story').

Now I have to find a "period" KW case, because the Deuber-Canton case stretches the story about 12 years (1876 - 1888) too far.

David,
I'm so glad that you had the chance to own a watch that you want, but better yet, at a better price too! It's good to hear some good things come out of our conversations about watches.
I especially like it that you let the seller know about his watch and he was so good about listening to you, sometimes they don't, so I think this is a success all around!!!!

Congratulations.

Thanks to Sheila, I now have the ? vintageN.Y.W.Co.Springfield and comparing it with one of my Hampden's of same vintage, I see two basic differences;
1. The N.Y.W.CoSp. has Humongous Jewels.
2. The N.Y.W.Co has Humongous Balance Weights.

Other than that they could/did come from the same plate cutting and drilling design process.

Detail N.Y.W.Co.Spr.

And the Hampden of similar wintage

Wow I see what you mean when you see them together like that.

A great way to compare.

Thank you