Hello, I have seen advertising for about all of the 18s Hampden RR grades, except for the 21J "North American Railway".I don't know when they were introduced, but they went up into the higher serial numbers, some being fully marked( double roller, 5 positions),so it seems odd that they didn't seem to advertise them.Would anyone know if they may have been made for some private label?The Hampden book doesn't list them as P.L. though.Has anyone seen an ad listing the N.A.R. grade?They look like a nice watch, hope to be able to get one someday.Thank you in advance, Ted.

Thank you,Lindell.This has been bugging me for years.North American Railways don't seem to be all that scarce, I've seen them for sale several times.It just seems odd that no ads for them seem to be around, especially since Hampden really promoted their Railroad watches.And thanks very much for starting a Hampden forum, I think it will be well worth the trouble!..Best Regards, Ted.

If anyone else is interested, I just discovered what may be the only ad for the North American Railway.On page 42 of Roy Ehrhardt's 1977 Indicator, There is a poor reprint from the 1904 Montgomery Ward catalog, showing the N.A.R. grade.Mr. Ehrhardt states that the pictures aren't very good because of the condition of the original catalog pages.I've had this book forever and never before noticed it.....Ted.

Ted,
I'm interested in seeing the ad and would like to see it posted. Right now serial #2276235 is up for auction at Hampden 21J 18S N. American Railway Pocket Watch It's in a Dueber Silverine case with a train engraved on the back. Very nice looking watch although there are additional case screw marks. Here's the movement.

Here's the Dial and Back.
RR

I'd be very curious about any experience IHC185 members have with this auction outfit. It's not altogether clear to me how they manage online bids, but it appears the auction is in real time -- accepting bids in-person (in Iowa) and by telephone (with a $500 minimum). At this point, the website informs you how many pre-sale bids have been placed on an item, but not what the bids are.

Further reading on the site raises caution flags, as the rules, protocols and protections you are probably used to don't exist with these folks; their Terms and Conditions are stacked awfully high against buyers. For instance:

- There is a substantial auctioneer’s fee (20%) added to a winning bid.
- Item descriptions are only “opinions” and “should in no way be construed as a guarantee of any kind”. Both the auctioneer and the consigner deny any responsibility for the correctness or completeness of descriptions, or the condition of the item. All sales are final, and refunds are not made for any reason.
- “The purchaser assumes full responsibility for items at the fall of the hammer. All items must be immediately insured by the buyer at the time of purchase.” (How does a buyer “immediately insure” a purchase at the moment bidding closes?).
- To ship buyer's purchase, the auctioneer charges not only the USPS/UPS fee, but also charges for packing material and labor (at "$20 per hour or portion thereof"). Further, the buyer will not be told the actual shipping charge before it is billed against your credit card (as a separate charge, filed after your high bid + 20% auctioneer's fee is charged).
- The auctioneer provides shipping of purchased items, and “will make every effort” to ship within 14 days, but the buyer should allow 30-45 days.
- In the event a buyer initiates litigation “for any reason,then buyer agrees to reimburse (auctioneer) for reasonable attorneys fees and/or costs incurred in any such action”.

Hi Richard...That's a nice looking NAR.I'm curious to see what it ends up going for.The Wards ad in Ehrhardt's book I found is pretty dark, and I personally have no way to copy or post it.I'm hoping one of the other members could help out with a copy of it, maybe their book is more suitable to copy, or even have a Wards catalog to take it from.It's the only ad I've ever seen for one of these.There seems to be a couple of different damaskeen patterns on North American Railways, the one you showed looks real similar to the pattern used on the "Dueber Watch Co." grade.I've seen a pic of one that has a pattern like the "3- Ball"., that is a swirl pattern from 3 different directions.Some of the newer ones are marked "double roller, 5 positions".If no one else can copy the ad, I could maybe try to take to a copier and see how it comes out.Thanks, Ted.

Ted,
No need to post an ad. I'm glad you brought up the 3-ball pattern. I've been considering adding one of the Railway 18s versions to my collection but then I seen a John Hancock in an ad with the ball pattern and I like it. Maybe there's one watch that has both features. I was wondering if the 3-ball pattern is the same on the John Hancock ad below as the NAR you seen a picture of?

Also, Damiens' observations of the above auction site makes ebay look good. I think it would make a great post for avoiding the pitfalls of online trading.

Thanks,
RR

Hey Richard, That 's another ad I've never seen before, this new Hampden forum is really great!.I have an earlier John Hancock like the one shown in the ad, except mine has a different damaskeening pattern.Mine is SN 1336097.It's in rough shape, so I haven't made up my mind whether to get it running or hold out for a nicer one.Luckily though, it has a pretty nice correct DS dial for a John Hancock (has Canton, Ohio under the name}.Thanks and good luck, Ted.

Damien, that auction site also sounds a little tricky to me.As Richard said, it makes ebay look good.I gave up on ebay a while ago, when they went to their new ridiculous payment method.I don't trust online payment of any kind.I prefer to "pay as I go,that way you never owe"....Regards, Ted.

I don't sell on Ebay, so I'm less sensitive to the bias sellers feel bearing against them in that bazaar. Nevertheless, the rules and exclusions of this alternate outfit put new and emphatic meaning into the warning "Buyer beware!"

Ted,
The ad is 1898 I should have posted that. Anyway, I just found a great picture of the John Hancock here and also another ball type pattern. I'm wondering if one of the patterns is on the North American Railway? The photo on the left is from Tom Dunn and the one on the right is from David Abbe. Here's the link Unusual Hampden I've not yet seen until now

Thanks again Richard, I wish I could remember where I saw that pic of a N.A.R. with the ball-type pattern, so I could lead you to it.Was a while ago, may have been on fleabay.I did see these ones before, there's a ton of valuable info here on IHC!Anyway, you can't go wrong buying a Hampden 18S RR grade, they're all nice.Touble is, one is never enough!Take care, Ted.

That's the truth. I have an early 17 jewel Special Railway and a 23 jewel New Railway that I adore. A NA Railway is on my short list of new additions when/if I find one. I like the 18s Hampdens a lot.

For clarification the "3 Ball" pattern is on the watch above marked Hampden Watch Co to the right of the John Hancock.

Here are two more different North American Railway patterns.

RR