Okay - I've read most of the posts regarding ultrasonic cleaners in this forum and I guess I need to have it explained to me like I was in kindergarten.

I'd like to hear from those like me - fearless when it comes to taking stuff apart; guys and girls who want to clean and maintain their own watches, but have no intention of doing it for a living or in bulk.

Do I want something that agitates? Spins? Vibrates? Most of the stuff on eBay looks like something you'd put your teeth in with no way of drying the parts. Does it rotate at different speeds? If you leave the jewels in, do you clean it at a different speed? I've got a good handle on which solutions to use for clean and rinse, but I'm not sure what I need mechanically.

Take a look at this Bulova. Is this what I'm after? It looks to be in good shape and would fit under my bench. Also, if anybody has something smaller and in great shape to sell let me know.

Thanks all, Eric

Eric

I am sure some will disagree with me but I use an ultrasonic just like the one you have the link to.

I do this as a hobby. I started out with a L&R egg beater type machine. I cleaned well but is loud.

I bought one of the Bulova, or Watchmaster, or Vibrograph, machines like in your link. In my opinion it does a better cleaning job than the egg beater type.

Now if this is right or wrong, but it is how the instructions that came with the machine show it. I remove the hands & dial. The I remove the mainspring barrel & open the barrel. I then place the entire movement in the cleaner minus the dial. If it is an extremely dirty movement, I will take it completely apart to clean.

I use one of the ultrasonic containers with cleaning solution, the other with rinse. Then I use the dip tank for a second rinise & then into the drying tank.

I check the piviots & staffs to make sure they all got clean when I am oiling the parts.

Like I said I am sure there are those that will disagree with me, I just know this works for me.

I have not had any pallet or roller jewels come lose from cleaning this way, I have had some that were loose before I started & I would fix them 1st so I wouldn't lose them.

Well anyway that is my two cents.

One last thing, when you buy one of these units try to get one with the baskets & thimble parts holder. I have a basket for wrist watches & another for pocket watches.

Tom

One other thing, the next model that was made has a seperate switch & dial on the drying section of the cleaner, this was so you could decide to use the heating element or not & also to control the speed of the dryer.

These units are still made today, they are now called the Mark V & go for somewhere between 1500 & 2000.

Tom

Tom...I have to disagree with you in one area. (You did say not everyone would agree ) I don't feel it is possible to properly clean a watch without taking it down completely. The balance jewels should be removed so any gunk between the cap jewel and hole jewel can be cleaned and the oil is placed between them when reassembling. It is impossible to examine the pivots, wheels, and pinions without taking the watch down. The mainspring has to come out of the barrel to clean it and the barrel and then relubed. The train should be assembled without the pallet to check for free movement with no binds anyplace. The balance should be put on the plate by itself to check for free movement and checking that the roller jewel falls nicely between the banking pins so it will be in beat. I just would not feel comfortable putting an assembled movement in a cleaner, drying it and lubing it and calling it a day. This is just my personal opinion and I'm glad your method is working for you.

Apologies to Eric for hijacking your thread. The Bulova looks nice!

Roger

Hi Roger

Feel free to disagree with me & I know you have been at this longer than me. Perhaps I do it the hard way, I do take the watch completely down but after I clean it, I hand clean & inspect the jewels etc. afterwards. I will give it a try your way & see how that comes out.

Thanks
Tom

Thanks guys, but disassembly technique is something I'll grow into. What I really want is an informed opinion on the mechanical type of cleaner for a starter like me - rotary, cavitating, or otherwise.

Tom, I've seen the L&R eggbeater you describe. You say you like the Bulova that I linked better - why? Smaller size, gentler washing, what? Also, I wrote the seller asking him for more info and he never got back. Have you seen one of these Bulovas in action? Do all the parts (baskets, thimbles) seem there? Does it have a heater? Lotta questions, I know.

Eric

Eric

I like the ultrasonic for several reasons. I think it does a better job cleaning, the jars that hold the cleaning solution & rinse are smaller that the L&R type so to me you waste a lot less chemicals, the cleaner turns green as it gets used from removing the oil from the movements & has to be changed fairly often, otherwise you are just cleaning the watch in dirty oil soaked solutions. Since the chemicals are rather expensive I find I use a lot less with the ultrasonic.

The unit is a lot smaller than the L&R, so if space is an issue it has a lot smaller footprint.

It is less noisy, for the ultrasonic you manily hear a hum, now the dryer is about the same sound as an L&R since it spins.

The one you linked to seems fairly complete except it has the wrong type of lid on the dryer, the dryer is the top left can, it should have a lid with a wire screen to let the hot air & moisture out. It also is missing the pocket watch basket. You can still buy these baskets new but they are expensive.

I have show these parts in the below photo from mine.

Feel free to ask any more questions & I will try to answer them.

Tom

I think that if you are a hobbyist, cleaning one watch per day, or less, that an inexpensive ultrasonic will be fine. A decent one can be had from tool supply houses for around $50. If you clean a lot of watches, then the pro level equipment makes more sense.

Thanks for the tip, Tom. What's the piece in the lower right of your pic? Looks like a cookie-cutter for a Xmas tree.

Eric

It is the clamp that holds the movement in the basket, it is upside down in the photo.

Tom

Patrick's advice is very sound. I have a very small ultrasonic that is only good for pocket watches. The Bulova is nice, but would probably be overkill for you.

Roger

Roger, what should I be looking for? This unit is small, has dunk and rinse jars, and a heater. If there's something more suited to the once-in-a-while guy like me, then tell me before I bid on the Bulova.

Eric

Eric, I use a "spin cleaner" mainly because the 4 day "suitcase" class I took used those at the advice of the teacher who claims that as Pocket watches must be fully disassembled anyway for safe and proper cleaning, the large spin cleaner baskets let you separate the 1 - 3 pairs of 4 to 6 jewels that have to be removed for cleaning as well as keeping all the Balance wheel and Balance cock hardware separated from the rest of the movement parts. (Just for openers.) So I use the "egg beater cleaning and have had no problems at all, I get about 35 "cleanings" per "load" of cleaner which at today's prices for the cleaner comes to about US$0.50 per watch. If I was doing smaller watches and not intending to fully disassemble them, I would certainly get an Ultrasonic as the smaller parts are less likely to be tossed about by the "boiling" action of the Ultra-sonic waves which can be pretty high energy when two parts are in contact with each other.

IN ALL CASES, my cleaning procedure follows very closely to Chris Abell's recommended 16 point watch service method at;

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...6047761/m/4451034703

I suggest you study Chris's 16-point "Opus" and choose whatever suits you best as a cleaning machine.

Eric...I have an E/MC model 150 ultrasonic cleaner made by a division of RAI research. It is at least 20 years old and I don't know if it is made any longer. It holds only a few ounces of liquid and will just fit 18S plates. If you want to economize, after using an inexpensive ultrasonic, a small strainer "borrowed" from your wife's kitchen can be used to place the parts and rinse in warm water. A hair dryer will work well to dry the parts. I also have the egg beater L&R that David shows. I usually use it for rinsing and drying after running my parts thru the ultrasonic. There are dozens of small, inexpensive ultrasonics on the market and on ebay. If you can score the Bulova unit for a price you are willing to pay, I think it would be nice as well.

Oh..and David, good idea to link to Chris's watch service process! What a writeup!!

Roger

Eric,
I have witnesed Rogers little ultrasonic in action. It does a very nice job for a small cleaner. I have been looking at ultrasonic cleaners since my visit with Roger and have not found a small enough one to satisfy me. They all seem to be made to clean dentures and eye glasses
I have an old C E Marshall spin type. It does a good job cleaning but I do not like to place balances and paletts in it. A small ultrasonic like Roger's would be just the nuts for the more delicate parts!

This is the closest I could find.
Sorry the pic didn't transfer.

Mini-ULTRAsonik™ Cleaner
NEYTECH's compact Mini-ULTRAsonik™ features strong cleaning action, very quiet operation, a stainless steel tank and heavy duty molded plastic cabinet.

Capacity: 8oz. (267 ml)
90 day warranty
Dimensions: Exterior w/ cover 5-1/4" W x 5-1/4" D x 4-5/8" H; Tank 3-5/8" dia. x 2" deep

Well, the Bulova went for ridiculous money - $585.

Thanks, Ed. How do you dry your parts? Put them in a small kitchen strainer and hit them with a hair dryer?

Roger, which does a better job, rotary or ultrasonic? Can damage occur when disassembled parts vibrate against each other in the ultrasonic?

Eric...It is my personal opinion that nothing beats ultrasonic for cleaning action. I never place the pallet or balance in for more than about 20 seconds or so because of the possibility of attacking the shellac holding the pallet jewels and roller jewel in place. Parts will not sustain any damage vibrating around in the ultrasonic. I do, however, put the large plates and cocks in separately from the train wheels and other small parts. After running the parts thru the ultrasonic, you may still need to clean pivot holes, especially non-jeweled holes with pith or other methods of your choice. I also find there is sometimes residue in the pinion leaves that must be gently scraped and then put back in the ultrasonic. The last thing I do when assembling the movement (after I am satisfied that pinions do not need polishing) is to push a piece of rodico into the pivots and leaves and then roll the wheel thru the rodico. This removes the last traces of anything left.

What's rodico?

See what $12 can do for your IQ?

Eric

It is a very handy sticky substance. If you search for it at the site you will find lots of talk about it.

Here is one post I found on it.

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...081049303#3081049303

Tom

To expand on Tom's explanation...a very handy sticky substance that doesn't leave any stickiness or residue behind. It just picks up junk and carries it away like magic. This is a "must have" item if you are working on watches. You will find dozens of uses for it.

Roger

In the art world this stuff is know as a "kneaded eraser." I first learned of it when attending design school in NYC in the late 60's, and used it for many years after. It was called "kneaded" because you could mush it into any shape you wanted in order to erase a mistake in your artwork without touching any of the surrounding areas. When I got involved in watches last year, I ordered some of this magic stuff called Rodico, and when I opened the package there was a lowly wad of kneaded eraser. This stuff definitely has endless uses.

Did this same stuff morph into Silly Putty in the 70s?

Silly Putty actually was invented in 1943 in an attempt to find a replacement for rubber due to WWII & the Japan controlling most of the rubber industry.

Tom

OK, back to the ultrasonic:

Assuming you have a single-tank unit - after bathing the parts in the cleaning solution, do you pour out the solution into a "used" jar to be re-used a dozen (or until dirty) more times?

Do you then pour in the rinsing solution without cleaning the tank, and then reclaim the wash in a second "used" jar to be also re-used? Do you actually run the ultrasonic to rinse or just let the parts sit there?

Do you repeat the above for a final clean rinse, again capturing the spent rinsing solution? Do you wipe out the tub between every step with a tack cloth?

Eric...I really wasn't kidding in my earlier post. If you want to economize, you can ultrasonic your parts in the solution of your choice, then fish them out and put them in a fine mesh strainer and rinse with warm water. You can then dry them with a hair dryer, or even in the toaster oven on the tray set on a low warm temp. Old time watchmakers were very creative, making many of their own tools. They would have a field day with the stuff we have available to us today.

Roger

Eric, I was faced with the same dilemma a few months ago and decided to just get a second low cost ultrasonic for doing the rinse. When I see stuff starting to show up on the bottom of the tub, I pour out the solution, clean the bottom of the tub, then put the solution back in. Of course, I make sure none of the junk that had settled to the bottom ends up back in the ultrasonic machine. And Roger was right concerning drying...do what is convenient and works best for you. Good luck.

Here is a picture of my ultrasonic cleaning setup. You see an ultrasonic cleaner that I found for about $50 (okay maybe $60, with shipping), brand new, from some place like Harbor Freight. It has programmable timing in increments. It can also heat the ultrasonic bath.

Then there is an ultrasonic cleaning basket, suitable for use with the rather cranky and expensive (used is less expensive, but more cranky) L&R rotary cleaner. It has a large basket that is suitable for plates, bridges, cases, etc. There is also a tray with indentations suitable for wheels, stems, etc. And there is another small basket with a screw-on lid that is suitable for very small parts like screws and springs and little cams and levers. This also has a press fit mesh lid to keep the parts in the basket in case somebody has a spaz attack. The whole thing fits together handily, keeping the parts separated and accessible. This cost roughly $25 on a famous auction site, and is also available used (cheap, but possibly defective) and new (expensive, but warranted) from various horological suppliers.

You also see a couple (I use more) of wide-mouth mason jars that are easily large enough to hold the assembled parts washing basket, or a pocket watch case or wrist watch bracelet and case together in your choice of cleaning or rinsing solutions. These cost maybe a buck apiece at better grocery and farm supply stores everywhere.

In use, the disassembled watch parts are carefully placed into a basket which is then placed into a mason jar filled with the appropriate cleaning or rinsing solution. The ultrasonic machine is filled to an appropriate level with water. Then the basket in the jar is placed into the ultrasonic bath. You may have noticed that you can use maybe three baskets at a time in separate jars in the ultrasonic. This is really nice after you get tired of counting the seconds until the ultrasonic is done. The basket is first placed into the cleaning solution. When done, it is briefly drained and then placed into the first rinse jar. At this point another basket can be placed into the first jar, etc.

The whole point here is that this setup is about as cheap and easy as you are likely to find, and it also does without unnecessary dumping, draining, cleaning and drying of the bulky ultrasonic machine. If you are not involved in production work it is probably entirely sufficient for your needs. Of course, if you WANT to work with a more vintage machine, that's another story.

Patrick...Am I reading correctly that you are placing the parts in a mason jar with the cleaning solution and then placing the jar in the ultrasonic that has water in it? If so, I don't see how you are really getting ultrasonic action on your parts. The ultrasonic creates millions of microscopic bubbles via a transducer that more or less explode and create the cleaning action. I think that would be happening in the water, not the jar. The only thing I can see happening in the jar is some vibration from the unit causing some agitation. I could be wrong, so maybe someone else can clarify.

Roger

Roger, Patrick is correct and is presenting a very efficient way to handle small production. I learned of his technique after already having purchased a second ultrasonic machine. Concerning the glass jar technique, one of my machines had it clearly spelled out in the instructions...if cleaning really tiny parts, it is better to put the parts in a glass jar and submerge in the ultrasonic machine rather than using finely woven mesh. They said the fluid in the glass jar will get the full action of the ultrasonic, whereas the super fine mesh of the basket would cut down on the "vibrations" considerably. Wire mesh is okay, as long as it isn't super fine. That is when wire would cut down on the action. But in a nutshell, the glass jar technique should work great.