Whats your opinion, are these pivots dirty?

I don't know. I tried my loupe and all I saw were pixels. The plate screws are off-screen, so I couldn't take it apart to look any closer.

JerryT
From what you could see in the photo, would you take this movement apart and clean the pivots, or?
No record of the last service date is available, but the Elgin is running well and keeping accurate time.

If it were my watch and i did not know of last service, i would be safe than sorry and get it cleaned and oiled.
This is just what i would do.

IHC Member 261
Chapter 111,Ottawa
NAWCC Member 158976,
Nepean, Canada

Wayne,

I copied your picture into my Top Secret browsing folder and disassembled the watch.

I agree with Kevin because I found old, gummy oil contaminated with dirt that was wearing away at your pivots.

John D. Duvall
Vice President, Education

John D.
They look dirty to me also. Did your Top Secret browsing folder determine the size and s/n?

Wayne,

I could only load what was in the picture. There was sufficient information for the secret algorithms to determine it was a 12s, 7J and possibly grade 301.

John D. Duvall
Vice President, Education

Wayne,

As I often tell people, many "pearls" of wisdom have been offered through the years on these message boards, and most are still available, for those with the initiative to look, read, and learn.

For example, you might consider reviewing my reply in the topic below, and then taking another good look at the pivots in your watch. Perhaps you will find some pertinent information, which will answer your question, and save you from making a costly mistake.

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=3206049661&f=3426047761&m=3216091633&r=5566030733#5566030733

================================

Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas
IHC Charter Member 49

John D.
You were very close, its a 12S 7J Grade 303, and any Elgin deserves cleaning/oiling before put it service.

Steve.
Thanks for the information, a watch with this much dirt around the pivots certainly should be taken apart, fully cleaned and oiled, even if its only 79 years old. An Elgin takes a licking and keeps on ticking.

Hey. Thats not a rust spot under the ballance wheel is it?

I know nickle dosent rust but what could it be?

Aaron

Aaron
Don't know what it is, but I'm not going to stick my finger in it.

[This message was edited by Wayne C. Anderson on September 26, 2003 at 20:10.]

Wayne,

The point I was attempting to make is that a part of the "dirt" you see around the pivots in your watch (especially around the center pivot) isn't really dirt at all, it's the metal from your pivots slowly being ground to dust.

When deposits of this nature begin to emerge from pivot holes, it's a sure sign they're starting to self-destruct, and service is well past due!

Think of it as draining the oil from the oil pan in your car, and seeing the oil pour out with metallic flakes in it. It means that something is going horribly wrong, and if measures aren't taken immediately to correct the problem, it will soon result in even larger headaches.

As for the rust colored "stain" under the balance, that looks like a rust spot, which would have been left on the plate where a steel part nearby rusted. It might be a dial screw, or a case spring, or who knows what else, but unless someone has already replaced the rusty part (and that isn't likely or they would have cleaned up the stain), the source will probably become apparent upon disassembly.

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SM

Steve
Thanks for the advice - here is a photo of the complete movement - all the parts are there, and I hope it might clean up and once again be a working Elgin. I only use watches for parts after all attempts to get it working fail.

A spot where dirt always accumulates is around the threads where the cae back and also where the bezel screws on.Which makes sense when you pull out all the lint and dirt that sometimes accumulates in pockets.

IHC Member 261
Chapter 111,Ottawa
NAWCC Member 158976,
Nepean, Canada

Wayne,

Are there any jeweler's marks inside the case back? This movement looks like it hasn't been worked on that much.

John D. Duvall
Vice President, Education

John D.
There is one hand markings/engraving on the case back "a1057", the case is a Supreme I.W.C.CO.
If that means "Oct 57" the last time it was serviced, is sure due for a good cleaning/oiling.

Dial side of the Elgin with dirty pivots.

Well the hands explain the rust spot I see. Wonder what it looks like under the dial?

Aaron

Wayne,

A plastic crystal may explain the rusty hands or where the watch was stored.

The jewelers mark is probably just a ledger number. Maybe this was their 1057th watch servicing. It would be my guess that this watch may have only been worked on once and then put away.

John D. Duvall
Vice President, Education

Hate to disagree, but with a case so badly worn, and a 7 jewel movement, if they're original to each other, I'd say it's likely that the watch has been in the shop a number of times in its life.

Now that I look at it more closely, I'm also going to bet that the serial number on the bottom of the balance wheel (if it has one) won't match the serial number of the movement. The reason I say that is that the rust pattern beneath the balance looks like those typically left when a balance wheel has rusted, but the present balance appears to be rust free. That means the balance wheel has probably been replaced, either with a new one (which wouldn’t have a serial number) or with one from another movement.

Like John said, the pattern of rust that's on the hands, as well as the "greenish" color the dial has, are classic symptoms of an old celluloid crystal, which has released corrosive gases over the years. In my experiences, most watches that have this problem (and nothing else) are usually fine beneath the dial, with the corrosion being limited to the parts above the dial.

=======================

SM

Thanks to everyone for their comments - after removing the plastic crystal, and viewing the dial, I think that I'm going to put this one back in the shoe box - to be worked on when I have much more time.