I just purchased an L&R cleaning machine and I have some questions on how to use it properly. I am a newbie who has never taken apart and cleaned a watch before, however I have bought all of the correct tools and have read anough so that I feel confident enough to try this. I am going to attempt to clean and oil an old 16 size 15j Elgin that I picked up very inexpensively on ebay. Here are my questions:

1. Besides the case, dial, hands, and mainspring, are there any other parts of the watch that you do not put in the L&R machine? What about the hairspring?

2. The Henry Fried book seems to indicate that the balance and hairspring assembly can be left together while cleaning. Did I interpret this correctly?

3. The movement that I am cleaning has screw down jewel settings. In my reading, some have suggested to completely remove these jewels from the bridge plates during cleaning. Is this necessary? I can understand why you want to remove the cap jewels, but why would you want to remove the hole jewels? Wouldn't the holes in the jewels clean just as well if they were still attached to the plates?

4. Do I need to be concerned about plates/parts bumping in to each other during the cleaning process? I have a three-piece basket and I can see where you would put the smaller more delicate parts into the small indented chambers, but what about the rest of the larger parts that spin around together in the large bottom basket? Can these parts bang around and damage each other?

Hi Tony:
Belated welcome to 185. Not sue how much I can offer, but here goes... You will likely get better responses from others with more experience. When I clean a movement.
Everything gets cleaned in the L&R solution except the items that you mentioned and the hairspring. IMO the hairspring it is way too delicate to risk so I have never tried it. I clean the hairspring with balance staff and roller jewel table together as one unit in One Dip cleaner. WRT to the balance jewels, I always remove the cap and lower jewel to clean and polish with peg wood I clean the jewels in the L&R cleaning solution as well. When you remove the cap jewels the lower jewel will likely come out as well, so you may as well take it out and know where it is. I don't remove other screwed down jewels. I clean them in the bridge. I always make sure to keep the balance cock jewels and the lower balance jewels separate so that they go back to their original home. I clean the plates manually so that they don't get damaged. Oh yeah, I always install a new mainspring.
Hope this helps!
Grant

Welcome Tony to ch 185, as you can see we have some great people here to help you in your love of this hobby.
I use a 3 jar l and r cleaning machine too.I use ammoniated cleaner in it at the moment, i may switch to something else later.I put my parts in the basket and put the plate in the lower part, if there are other large parts i would do them separately, never had any scratches yet.I also take out the upper and lower balance jewels and clean separately so i dont mix them up.I detach the balance from the cock, just find it easier for me to handle and inspect.I don,t install a new mainspring every time, but it is a good idea since you have it apart and it can only help the watch,s performance.I don,t always remove the jewels from the plates, only if they are really dirty, usually peg before cleaning and once after cleaning.
Hope this helps.
I don,t have one dip so i use naptha gas to clean the hair spring, works well.

Tony,

It sounds like you have a 3 piece backet for your L&R... the mesh basket, a second piece that goes on top with 4 different size depressions, and a mesh lid that covers it.

I remove all cap jewels, and keep the hole jewels in place so they don't get mixed up and reinstall the jewelset screws so they don't get lost. I put the cap jewels in one of the top compartments of the basket (they are different enough that they aren't confused). All plates go into the big basket, along with barrel and barel cover and other large pieces. I put the train in a small mesh basket that I have and stick it in the main basket also. Be careful that the fourthwheel pinion can't stick through the mesh, you don't want to break off the second hand pivot.

The screws, clicks, winding and setting parts, etc can go into one of the compartments in the top. I also put the pallet in one of the compartments. I put the Balance with hairspring attached into one of the compartments on top by itself.

One would think that everything would be spinning around and bumping into each other during a cleaning cycle, but the nice thing about a centrifigal cleaner is that things stay relatively in place. I do take care that the plates aren't facing top-to-top, and that I don't make sudden starts and stops while cleaning. Another thing you can do is thread the plates onto a brass wire to keep them in place if you feel the need.

After cleaning and rinsing, I do inspect the plates, peg the hole jewels, polish the palet stones and cap jewels, and pithwood the pivots. If needed, I will use One Dip on the hairspring/balance assembly and dry in boxwood sawdust.

That's how I do it and it sems to work for me. I'm sure others have different techniques. Let's hear them

This discussion has been helpful to me; I am still figuring the best way to approach my cleaning. Mike, does it harm the pallet to put it in the cleaning and rinsing solutions? Do the solutions disolve the shellac holding the stones? (same question for the impulse stone) So far, I have been keeping the pallet and balance/hairspring out of the baskets, for fear of damage. This is an interesting discussion, thanks,
Pete

Thank you guys so much for the responses! This is exactly the information that I am looking for! I would enjoy hearing other techniques/pointers that any others may have.

Peter, as a beginner I am not sure that I should be answering questions, but in the Henry Fried book, he recommends cleaning the the pallet and balance/hairspring in the cleaning solution and then rinsing with benzene, just like all the other parts. However from the way he describes it, it looks like he was soaking the parts in a mesh basket and manually agitating them (rather than using an electric or ultrasound cleaner).

If you are using a mechanical (centrifigal, non ultrasonic) cleaning machine, and a commercial watchcleaner and rinse (naptha based), you shouldn't have to worry about disolving the shellac in either the pallet stones or roller jewel. Shelac will disolve in alcohol.

I wouldn't recommend running the pallet or balance assembly through an ultrasonic. It is possible for the ultrasonic action to pop loose the shellac holding the jewels in place.

"Proceed with caution" is always a good rule of thumb. I wouldn't run some of the very old movements through the mechanical. Some have the hairsprings pinned to separate cocks, some have very weak and delicate hairsprings. If in doubt, hand-clean.

Fried's books are an excellent resource, but remember they are somewhat dated. We have much safer and effective cleaners and rinses available today. I wouldn't recommend "benzene"

Mike good advice.
Also caution if using a ultrasonic to clean watch parts, specifically jewels.I have cracked and broke a pallet jewel before and have heard this happens to the older jewels because when they were drilled it caused small cracks in them.
Is there any advantage to use one dip over naptha gas?

Kevin.

Straight Naptha is fairly flamable, VM&P Naptha has a higher flash point and it is the one used mostly in cleaners and solvents.

Naptha isn't a very effective cleaner by itself. It can be used as a rinse. One Dip is an effective cleaner and is trichloroethane (I believe). We had a discussion on this a while back:

Discussion Topic: One Dip

I have a two ounce bottle that has lasted for several years. I have heard that it is produced for domestic use in the US only. I'm not sure if it can be shipped to Canada from supply houses here. You might contact Uncle Larry's.

Thanks Mike i thought it was good as a degreaser, cleaner for a hair spring.It is available here, in fact there is a watch supply store here in Ottawa, i will get some.
Thanks again Mike.