Looking for an Elgin Expert!

I spent most of the daay yesterday trying to get this old watch going. I found this one in a drawer of stuff I purchased a couple of weeks ago. The tag stated it needed a pallet for and escape wheel. The movement looked pretty good so I decided to get the parts. A freind and I looked up the numbers, counted teeth and I brought home some parts. I found out that the pallet pinions were too large. So to the lathe I went. I polished and they fit well. Time to tear down completely and run through the ultrasonic. Now I see a bad ratchet wheel and a broken mainspring. This is not what I bargined for. I just expected a couple of parts and a few minutes and a compltet watch. LOL

So after may attempts it is down to this. I am looking for, according to the old Elgin book, these parts.

994-Q escape and pinion
x5- S.L. fork
x5 - Pallet
x546 - G pallet stone
981 - escape wheel

A complete excaspe wheel and complete fork and pionion would be nice. Please double check my numbers, you won't make me feel bad. I'd just like to bring this old gril back to life.

Did I mention replaced balance staff also. It was about five hours yesterday on this one. What a lesson!

I'll post a couple of pics that I took while working below. Thanks for any help!

and a few more pics

3rd pic

4th pic

5th one more

last one, look at that setting mech, it is really different. The pat. date and the way the balance cock are marked seem interesting to me, more research to be done. Thanks to anyone who may have some parts.

Boy did my big fingers hit a couple of wrong keys, sorry need spell checker!

The number on the movemet is 870804
mre details
Serial Number SN Range Quanty Name Year grade size code jewels Adj/reg/etc.
-------------- -------- ------ ---- ---- ----- ---- ------ ------ ------------
870804 870001 5000 ? 1881 82* 18s hfg2l 13-15j ?
# this run is mixed named 13j REG_FREE


grade total runs first yr last yr class size code jewels Adj/name
----- ----- ----- -------- ------- ----- ---- ------ ------ ----------
82 163000 68 1878 1895 4 18s hfg2l 13-15j GMW -

(*) notes on grade 82: Marked: GMW or None.
# not sure which naming is more common # REG_FREE or REG_ELGIN?


Class 4: 18s HC fp
16 400 made key model 1 7j Marked LAF or RYR. gilded slow train (4.5 bps)
17 500 made key model 1 11j gilded slow train (4.5 bps)
56 1100 made key model 1 11j gilded slow train (4.5 bps)
57 75146 made key model 1 11-13j Marked GMW, ADV, None or CAL. gilded slow train (4.5 bps)
63 10973 made lever model 2-4 11-13j Marked GMW or None. gilded slow train (4.5 bps) "transitional" Either Keywind or pendant wind. are any really 13j?
81 53000 made key model 1 13-15j Marked None, GMW or FRY. gilded are there really any FRY? # REG_FREE or REG_ELGIN?
82 163000 made lever model 2-4 13-15j Marked GMW or None. gilded not sure which naming is more common # REG_FREE or REG_ELGIN?
103 74000 made lever model 2-4 15j Marked GMW or None.
125 13000 made lever model 2-4 15-17j Adj gilded
126 11000 made lever model 2-4 15-17j Adj
143 7000 made lever model 2-4 15-17j U-A Marked GMW or None. gilded
144 41000 made lever model 2-4 15-17j Adj Marked GMW or None. not sure which naming is more common are any of these actually 15j?
278 2000 made lever model 2-4 17j ? Marked OVR.

**** UNKNOWN DATA LISTED! UPDATE DATABASE IF POSSIBLE

The long and the short of this is that you have an 18 size model 2 Elgin.

The guilded escape wheel is indeed a 981 (steel 2168)

994 is the escape wheel with pinion (gilded)

You want a pallet with straight pivots. So that is either 615 or 2876 depending on the shape. You have a 615 in the picture. The horns on the counter balance are closer together than on the 2876. In the latter the counter balance horns fan way out.

A good place to look for parts is Uncle Larry's see http://www.execulink.com/~lfoord/index/elgin.htm

He seems to have your escape wheel 981 and he has the escape wheel with pinion 994.

He does not appear to have the whole pallet 615. He does have the fork, part 1 (the long part). He also has the pallet with stones, 4 (just the cross part). He has a pallet arbor 1303. Finally he has 546 pallet stones. I am not sure which parts you are looking for, since you have a pallet already.

These part mount up and sometimes it is just as easy to find a parts movement. See for example Dashto at http://www.dashto.com/newlists...ialmovements.htm#023

I hope this is of some help.

Don

Thanks Don,

A fast route to finding what you need is our...

HOROLOGICAL ITEMS "WANTED TO BUY OR TRADE"
List hard to find items you've been looking for right there!

We also placed this topic so it can be viewed by those checking our Watch Repair Questions and Answers as well as in the Pocket Watch Discussions where it originated.

Dr. Debbie

Thanks to both Don and Debbie. Your information is very helpful. I check out those resources and keep looking.

Bob, You are right about the setting mechanism. Years ago, I had this explained to me by an old Elgin trained watchmaker. what you have is a model 3. When the 18S HC Elgins are listed, you will see them listed as model 2-4. The model 3 was the first attempt at the lever set mechanism. Although very functional, Elgin found that the center gear in the circle with the fine teeth was quite fragile. This was especially so if the cannon pinion was over tightened. The small teeth would easily strip out. Sometime later, Elgin came out with the model 4 which changed to a more rugged setting mechanism.

The strange thing is that I have seen this model 3 mechanism in later 18S watches--the latest I have seen is one that I own, a 21J Father time, SN 6,728,130. When I got it, the setting gear was stripped. It took me two years to find a replacement gear.

Tom

Update:
I completed this watch. It is shown on the assembly pics on the post above. I was really lucky to fine the correct pallet and escape wheel (complete). Last isssue is to adjust for time. It is slow (hands). I am checking the cannon next and then take it to my friend to actually put it on a timming machine. Thanks to all that provided information.